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Desiree Capuano & James Pendleton
250 E. Placita Lago Del Mago
Sahuarita, AZ     85629
Tel: 520-288-8200

R. v. Patrick Fox - RCMP Interviews

Burnaby File: 2016-25379
Statement of Desiree CAPUANO
Statement Date: Wednesday, 2016/07/13
Statement Time: 1323 hours

BW: Cpl. Brent WILCOTT


1.BW:Good afternoon. It’s Corporal Brent WILCOTT with the Burnaby RCMP. It’s Wednesday, July 13th, 2016 at uh 1323 hours. I’m here at { V01 - Redacted by Crown Counsel }. Uh oh, with Desiree. Sorry, Cap-, Desiree, can you help me pronounce the last name too?
3.BW:CAPUANO. So thank you very much, Desiree. Um so like we said we’re gonna take a statement of you regarding uh Mister RIESS, Mister FOX, kinda whatever we wanna call him. I, I know you know him as Mister RIESS.
5.BW:Uh he has changed his name obviously and you’re aware of it to
7.BW:Patrick FOX.
9.BW:Um but we’re, I’m hoping to get kind of a, a full history lesson. Um when you guys met, let’s start from there and then let’s go through kind of all the, the crap that you’ve been going with, going through I guess.
10.DC:Okay. Alright. Um...December of 1999 broke up with an ex-boyfriend um in Florida and moved out to Arizona. Uh January of 2000 I met Richard RIESS at a bar in Phoenix. Uh we started dating. Um it was a very fast moving relationship. Um after the first month and a half or so uh we moved to Los Angeles um and lived there for about another month and a half. Um I became pregnant in March of 2000. Um in April of 2000, April/May time frame, somewhere around there, um I was in a very bad car accident, I was about three months pregnant and uh I started hemorrhaging. Um we decided to move back to Phoenix because my mother lived there. Um so in August we drove um from Los Angeles to Phoenix uh with a stopover in Las Vegas where we signed a marriage licence at the drive-thru wedding chapel. Um in Phoenix uh I continued to hemorrhage off and on.
11.BW:Sorry, let’s just go back to that and catch up here.
13.BW:So you got married in uh Las Vegas.
15.BW:In what month, sorry?
16.DC:Uh August of 2000. We signed a marriage licence but he is actually, he was already married
18.DC:to Kimberly Anne SHIRES, and he still is. And so I was his second marriage so it was never legitimate.
19.BW:Okay...Sorry, keep on going there.
20.DC:Oh no, it’s okay. Um we, we really only got married for the insurance. Um...
21.BW:‘Cause of the medical?
24.DC:Yeah. Um, uh so in Phoenix um hemorrhaged a couple times. Um I was Bayflited to the hospital at one point and uh September 27th um gave birth to our son. Uh it was a, an emergency C-Section. Um I was severely early, I was a week into the six month so our son was born at two pounds three ounces, was in an incubator for six weeks. Um during that time uh Richard um told me he didn’t want really anything to do with me or the child. Um and he didn’t go to see the child in the hospital, uh told me it would probably be better if we gave him up for adoption. Um of course I didn’t. Uh he came home from hospital after about six weeks. Uh we had him in Phoenix um and then we moved back to LA. Uh which is where Richard wanted to be. Um so...
25.BW:Sorry, when was that around?
26.DC:Uh late 2000. I, I, I don’t remember exactly when it is. It was late 2000 or early 2001.
28.DC:Um we...
29.BW:And where, where did you guys move to?
30.DC:Los Angeles, Torrance. Um we lived there in an apartment., I’m sorry, off track. Um when we were together in Arizona he actually uh would take jobs with companies, get the relocation money, uh stay with the company for a couple weeks and then quite, uh keeping relocation money. So he did that to four different companies while we were in um Arizona, um each time using a fake social security number to get employment.
31.BW:And sorry, when was this around?
32.DC:This was in 2000. Um..
33.BW:And you think about three to four, or?
34.DC:Yeah. Yeah. Ev-, every company that he worked with he actually used a made up social security number. Um...
35.BW:Where did he get that?
36.DC:He would just make it up, the social...
37.BW:Just came up with a number?
38.DC:Yeah, yeah.
40.DC:He, he’d figured out like the first three numbers indicated what state it was from and so he would choose the state that he’d want the social to come from and then he would use the other numbers and figured out the method there.
41.BW:Did he talk to you about that?
42.DC:Mm hmm, yeah. Um, uh he would, he would rent cars and providing his fake identity, things like that, so. Um...
43.BW:And he was living in the States at this time. Right?
46.DC:Uh Richard RIESS.
47.BW:Okay. So it wasn’t a fake ID then.
48.DC:It wasn’t a fake identity, um it was, it was fake social security number.
50.DC:Um and credit for, for things like that. Um while we were together I actually put together a baby book um and so he introduced me to his dad and his mother and um at one point his half-brother came down and stayed with us while we were in Los Angeles. Um and I got his grandparents’ names, great- grandparents’ names, all of his half-brothers and sisters. And the elementary school, middle school, high school, the college he went to. Um I, I, I have it all. Um from...
51.BW:Where did, where were his parents from?
52.DC:Uh his mother lived in Vancouver, and his dad is in Toronto, Ontario. He uh, he went to Sprott-Shaw College.
53.BW:And that’s?
54.DC:He didn’t graduate.
55.BW:Do you know which uh, which place he went to school at?
57.BW:In Ontario?
58.DC:Yeah, he was born in Sudbury.
60.DC:So um, and I think the name of his school was some number, and it was like you know number 54 elementary school or middle school or something like that.
61.BW:Okay. So he wasn’t lying to you about his identity then.
63.BW:It was just everyone else kinda.
66.DC:Yeah, and, and he would give him his, his real date of birth and his real name. Um whenever anybody needed a credit issue he would just make up a social for that. And so um...
67.BW:So you guys moved out to LA then and?
68.DC:Yeah, it was 2001, um the relationship was very bad. Uh it’s just um he put me down a lot, um a lot. Uh never had anything to do with the child. Um wouldn’t even look at our son. Wouldn’t pick him up, hold him, talk to him, ask about him, he didn’t really want anything to do with him. Um he blamed me for putting him in a position where he had to be a dad and he didn’t like that. Um so towards the end of 2001 uh I decided that I, I didn’t wanna be in the relationship anymore. Um told him. It was very amicable. Uh we agreed to separate. We went through all of belongings, split ‘em all up evenly. Um there was never any question about you know the child. Um and in October of 2001 I moved uh to Phoenix uh with our son and moved in with my mom. Uh at this time the ex-boyfriend from Florida uh and I began talking and he knew that I had a child. Um but we decided to see if we could give it another shot. And so in December um I went to Florida on a very short trip, it was supposed to be a week, we had plane tickets bought to come back and get my son. Um my mom told me to leave my child with her and um it would be fine, she would take care of him and go figure it out and we could always come back and, and get him and bring him to Florida. Uh Richard found out and while I was travelling to Florida he drove from Los Angeles to Phoenix. He took our son from my mom, brought him back to California, filed for custody and said I abandoned him. And the money that I have for the plane tickets then had to go towards lawyer fees. Um and in February of 2002...
69.BW:Sorry, let’s go back here.
71.BW:So he took {G*****} from your mom?
73.BW:And do we know how that went?
74.DC:Um basically he showed up and said I want my son and she said I have no legal right to keep him from you.
75.BW:Just like that?
77.BW:So there was no fight or anything?
78.DC:Not that I know of.
79.BW:Do you talk to your mom anymore?
80.DC:Yeah, my mom and I are very close.
82.DC:She feels bad about it but there wasn’t much she could do, he was the father, so um she...
83.BW:So he just took really
85.BW:um, just gonna make note of that.
86.DC:Yeah. I don’t believe there was a fight.
87.BW:And how old was {G*****} at this?
88.DC:He was uh a year, a year old.
89.BW:Okay. And what happened after that?
90.DC:Um we fought for custody. I, me from Florida.
91.BW:While you’re in Florida, okay.
92.DC:Mm hmm. Him in California. He had a very good job. Um he’s always been a C++ software developer and so he’s always made...
93.BW:What does that mean? Sorry, I’ve seen that.
94.DC:He writes code.
96.DC:He writes code, he’s a programmer.
97.BW:Like binary and?
100.DC:But C++ is the language.
102.DC:That’s the language that he writes code in. Um and he always has. I mean that’s just what he does. And so uh both here and in Canada and anywhere in the cc-, in the world.
104.DC:Um programmers make a lot of money. So he was making 75,000 dollars a year. Um so he had lots of money, a good lawyer, he had the kid. Um...
105.BW:So how much legal turmoil are we talking about here in the end of 2001? What happened?
106.DC:Lots. Lots. Um I couldn’t afford a very good attorney and I had to get an attorney in California.
107.BW:Uh huh.
108.DC:And so from Florida we’re just trying to go back and forth. Um, uh she really didn’t do a whole lot and I didn’t have any money. And so um she was a very inexpensive attorney and I was borrowing money to pay her and uh you know her position was that I did not abandon my son in any way, shape or form. Um and that Richard would call um all the time in the middle of the night and he would tell me that he couldn’t handle the kid, he couldn’t handle our son, that uh he just, he was gonna give him back um every other night. And uh by morning he would change his mind. And uh, uh emails back and forth. Um that you know he’s only doing this to hurt me. Uh he only took the kid ‘cause he thought I would go after child support. Um none of it had to do with the love for the child. Uh it was really all just a way to get back at me.
110.DC:Um and so we submitted those to the judge as, as evidence that you know none of this was about his love of his son and wanting to be a dad. It was about hurting me. Um in February of 2002 we went to court in California and the judge said that based off of the email conversations back and forth, it appeared that nobody had the child’s best interest in mind so she was going to discount all of those conversations. Um she determined that we should have joint custody of the child who again was about a year and a half old at this point. Um no child support would be determined. And that the terms of the joint custody were that we were supposed to fly the child back and forth between California and Florida every two weeks.
111.BW:That’s a little unreasonable don’t ya...
112.DC:Yup. Um and my attorney you know said you know she, she lives in Florida, this is, this is gonna be unreasonable and the judge said I don’t really care, then she needs to figure it out.
115.BW:Sorry, I’m just gonna quickly go back.
117.BW:We’re gonna...
118.DC:And I have that documented. I mean I have the original 2002...
119.BW:Okay, the court order?
122.DC:So if you need to see the two weeks with each parent.
123.BW:So just one thing I just had a quick question about.
125.BW:So you were flying out to, did you fly to Florida the first time?
126.DC:I drove.
127.BW:You drove?
128.DC:Mm hmm.
129.BW:That’s why it took a little bit then?
130.DC:Yes, yeah.
132.DC:Took me three days.
133.BW:How did Richard find out?
134.DC:I told him.
136.DC:I honestly didn’t think I had anything to worry about. He had never showed any interest in the kid.
137.BW:Did you tell him you were going
139.BW:for what reason?
140.DC:I told him that an ex and I, he knew, he knew of the ex. Um...
141.BW:Do you think that had a cause to this?
143.BW:Like a jealous...
144.DC:Yup, yeah, but it just didn’t occur to me.
146.DC:Like we, we had been apart for six weeks, two months and at no point did he ask about our son. He came out to see me but didn’t wanna spend any time with our son. Um it just was never a consideration in my head.
148.DC:Uh he told me later that he had already contacted the attorney and the attorney told him to act that way. And so he had already been planning it.
150.DC:I, I didn’t know.
151.BW:When did he find that out? Was that after, like around the trial time?
154.DC:Yeah. Um...
155.BW:Okay, so let’s go back toward then, we’ll go after, sorry, what was the date of that? Was it February 2002?
156.DC:February 2002.
158.DC:Yeah. Um so I, I got the first two week visit um because at that point I hadn’t seen my son in over two months and he was a year old, a year and a half.
159.BW:And you were now living in
161.BW:Florida. You were staying there?
164.DC:Yeah. Um so we were allowed to have the first two week visit. Uh we drove him back to Florida with us. Um I had him for you know the, the duration of the visit. The handoff was supposed to happen in the airport so the day of you know I was supposed to bring him to the airport and meet up with Richard and transfer him into his custody and he would take him, the night before Richard actually appeared at my house and uh we caught him messing with the engine of the vehicle. Um when we turned on the lights and, and ran out he got in a cab and drove away so I couldn’t actually prove any of it. But um the battery was unplugged and some other things were messed with um in the car.
165.BW:Did you call the police about that?
166.DC:No. Uh we had nothing, nothing to show.
167.BW:Did you see the hood up?
168.DC:Yeah. Saw him with the hood up and, and in front of it but he closed the hood and took off.
169.BW:Okay, and what, sorry, what was happened, what did you guys notice?
170.DC:Uh well the dog started barking.
172.DC:Um at the front. And so we went out and we saw somebody in front of the car. And so we turned on the lights, we ran out and he was gone.
173.BW:And what was wrong with the car?
174.DC:The battery was disconnected. I think something else was done, done on it but I, I don’t remember.
175.BW:That’s 14 years ago.
179.BW:So the next day you’re supposed to go meet him at the airport.
180.DC:Yeah, so I did. I gave him, I gave him my son. And uh...
181.BW:Did you confront him on what happened?
182.DC:Yeah, he, he said he knew nothing about it.
184.DC:Um he took our son back to California. Um and the next two weeks I just didn’t have the money. Um he would continuously call, threaten, uh mm-, my then boyfriend, uh his name was Michael, he’s my youngest son’s father, {SC*****}, so
185.BW:Mm hmm.
186.DC:um he would threaten Michael’s daughter, uh Michael’s ex-wife. Um talk trash about them. Some really lude and awful things, um sexual in nature about them. Um just constant. And uh it got really hard um to deal with. And I honestly thought that if uh, if I was like you know what you just take the kid, fine, that’s what you want, you want our son, then take our son, um that he would freak out. But uh and I guess he did but he never, he never gave me, our son back. Um I kept trying to raise the money to fly our son out. Um but by the time I had the money uh Richard was gone.
187.BW:Do you know when that was?
188.DC:Uh it was later on in 2001, 2-, sorry, 2002. So yeah, I guess by...
189.BW:So this is a couple cycles of
191.BW:those two week cycles where you were supposed to see him.
194.DC:And I just couldn’t afford it. I had no job, I had no money.
196.DC:We just didn’t have anything. Um...
197.BW:And so did you try to just call him and you couldn’t find him?
198.DC:Mm hmm. I called him, the phone number didn’t work. I emailed him, he didn’t respond. And, no other way to get a hold of him.
199.BW:Okay so what happened then?
200.DC:Um, I uh, I got a job. (chuckles) I, at that point I mean I, I didn’t know where he was, I didn’t know, um, how to get a hold of him or how to find him, um or what to do. Um, so I would call Child Protective Services in Los Angeles every six months and give ‘em my information. Um, and then in 2005, uh I got a call from my mom that said Richard and my son were in Phoenix. Um, my mom um and Richard agreed to, uh, have {G*****}, have our son there uh with her, spend some time with her. He actually um, he needed to travel to Los Angeles for some things so he asked my mom if she’d watch our son. Um she agreed. Um, so he spent some time with her there. Um, one of those visits in 2005, um she actually called me and put me on the phone with our son. Um, and I guess uh, it really confused {G*****}. He was five years old at the time. And uh, Richard found out that she had called me and he got very mad, um, and refused to let her see {G*****} anymore. I guess um, it would have been around September of 2005 because they had arrangements for her to spend {G*****}’s birthday with them. And so she showed up at his apartment with all of the birthday presents, and it was empty.
201.BW:So this is, did they have like an agreement they weren’t gonna talk to you?
204.DC:Mm it was never determined or said ahead of time. Um, I guess he just assumed that she wouldn’t call me.
206.DC:Um and she did and,
207.BW:But if it took a couple times for your mom to call you.
209.BW:Like if ...
210.DC:I think she was,
211.BW:And I’m a father and,
213.BW:my mother if my children were away from me and my mom had access to ‘em, my mom would call me immediately.
215.BW:I have your child.
217.BW:And tell me.
218.DC:Yeah. Um, well she told me that, you know Richard was in town. She told me that they were making arrangements, you know to spend time together.
220.DC:Um, and uh, but it was, you know, she didn’t call me to talk to {G*****} until a couple times.
222.DC:Um, there were, there were, there were many years that my mom and I had, had issues.
223.BW:Yeah there’s, obviously there’s something there and,
225.BW:that, you know what that’s,
226.DC:We’ve worked past it.
227.BW:Okay good.
228.DC:We, we’ve worked past it. Um,
229.BW:And we don’t need to
230.DC:she’s my best friend.
232.DC:You know. Uh,
233.BW:We don’t need to go into that,
234.DC:No and that’s okay,
235.BW:uh it just,
236.DC:that’s okay.
237.BW:I wanted to cover that off because,
238.DC:She, she blames herself for a lot of what happened.
240.DC:She does. Um, so September, October 2005 he’s gone. Apartment’s empty. Phone number doesn’t work.
241.BW:This is the Phoenix apartment?
242.DC:Yeah. And we’re back to not knowing where he is. 2005, actually 2005 um, I enrolled in college. Um, and started working on getting a degree. Um, my whole, my whole thought process was, I never gave up on the fact that I, I was gonna find my son.
244.DC:That I was gonna have him. But I wanted to be in a position where once I had him, I would be able to provide for him. And so since I, I didn’t know where he was, and I couldn’t go after him, I thought that the best thing that I could do would be to improve myself and my situation. So that when I did find him, that I would be okay.
245.BW:And you ha-, at this time you already have your other child,
246.DC:Ss, yeah.
248.DC:My younger. Yeah he was born in 2003.
250.DC:Um Michael and I got married in 2002. Um, and uh, and so yeah we were married and raising, raising
252.DC:the younger child too.
253.BW:Sorry I’m just gonna go, so you got remarried in 2002?
254.DC:Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep.
256.DC:Mm-hmm. CAPUANO. Same last name as me. I kept his last name. ‘Cause it sounded better with my first name.
259.BW:Um, and
260.DC:And we’re actually really good friends.
261.BW:Okay so you had a child.
263.BW:Uh sorry what was the child’s name?
267.BW:And when was {SC*****} born?
268.DC:{ V01 - Redacted by Crown Counsel }.
269.BW:Does Richard know this?
271.BW:Like date of birth (inaudible) {SC*****} is,
272.DC:Yeah. Yeah.
273.BW:{SC*****} is boy?
275.BW:Okay. Just makin’ sure.
276.DC:{SC*****} is a boy. Uh {SC*****} is all over that website.
278.DC:Yeah. Pictures of {SC*****}.
280.DC:Video of him. Pictures of him in his underwear. Map (inaudible) house. If any pedophile wanted to find my under aged child he could just go right to the house.
282.DC:Super. Yeah. No Richard hates {SC*****}.
284.DC:Um ...
285.BW:So did, how long were you and Michael together then?
286.DC:Until 2000 we, we separated in 2009.
288.DC:So, um, yeah we’re not, we’re not even there yet. Okay so uh 2005. He, you know, he shows up. Um, has a couple meetings with my mom and then disappears again ‘cause he doesn’t like what she did.
290.DC:Um, then I get a call in, was November or December of 2007. And Richard again showed, shows up in Phoenix. Um, the bar that we originally met at is uh a local neighbourhood bar. Um, my mom worked there back when I was 15 years old and it was just kind of a hangout spot. So Richard knew that he could get a hold of my mom through the bar.
292.DC:Which is how he kept finding her. So he would show up at Marcel’s. Um, let them know that he was looking for Theresa and they would get a hold of Mom. Um and this time, the message that he gave to my mom to give to me was that {G*****} wanted to speak with me. Um at this point I was, I, I was graduating in 2007. December of 2007 and Michael and I had already um, decided to move to Phoenix. Back to Phoenix. So I had a phone number that had a Phoenix area code. Um, already assigned to it. Was actually a fluke. But, um, and so I gave, ga-, I told him absolutely, you know give him my phone number. Of course I’ll talk to my son. (chuckles) Um, so he called one night. Um,
293.BW:He’s seven now, right?
296.DC:He’s seven years old. And I spent about an hour on the phone with him. And uh, I asked him every single question I could think of. What’s your favourite colour? Um, do you read (inaudible), what’s your favourite, you know book, what’s your, what’s your favourite movie, what do you like doing? Um, you know where do you like to eat and where do you, you know, do you have friends? Ev-, everything.
298.DC:At one point I ran out of questions and he’s Mom ask me more. (chuckles) Uh, so uh we get to a point in the conversation where he says Mom, I’d really like for you to meet me at a park, tonight. And uh, I’m sorry. I, I always miss things. During the 2005 visit, Richard had a gun.
299.BW:That’s with Mom?
302.DC:Richard, Richard actually had a firearm. Um, and one night at the bar, at Marcel’s bar, {G*****} was actually in the bar watching a movie on like a little portable player. Um and Richard was at the bar lining up bullets. Um, uh so I knew that he had a firearm and he was not lookin’ so hot. According to my mother.
303.BW:So the meeting took place in the ...
304.DC:Uh no just uh
305.BW:In a bar?
306.DC:they, my mom happened to go to the bar one night and he was there. And they were at a separate table. My mom was at a separate table with her husband and they looked over and saw him at a booth, lining up bullets. Um ...
307.BW:So she saw the gun or the bullets?
308.DC:The bullets.
310.DC:Well and the gun on his holster, yeah.
313.BW:So he had an open carry.
314.DC:Oh yeah.
316.DC:Well not a licence but,
318.DC:this state doesn’t have (inaudible). So. Um but it was not registered. Um, and so when, couple years later when {G*****} tells me that he wants me to meet him in the middle of the night at a park. One, I was in Florida. And two, I probably wouldn’t go (inaudible). Um, just because that’s a very sketchy situation.
320.DC:Um I told {G*****} that I couldn’t meet him that night. Um, but I asked him, you know is everything okay? Is everything, you know, anything wrong? And I, no, nothing’s wrong, I just really want you to, to meet me at this park. I um, and uh, s’ well you know, and I can’t but you know, Gramma’s there. She’s right there so if anything’s wrong, you know, Gramma can get you and then I can be there tomorrow. You know, I’d figure out a way. Um, and he said no everything’s fine. You know everything’s fine, I just wanted to see you. Okay. Um, and uh, that was it. That was the phone call. Um, two days later I tried to call again and the number was disconnected. Uh and then that point, he was gone again.
321.BW:You think moved out of Phoenix?
322.DC:I didn’t know.
324.DC:I didn’t know at the time. I had no idea what was going on.
325.BW:Sorry when was this around? This is?
326.DC:This is uh December of 2007.
327.BW:Okay. ‘Kay what (inaudible)?
328.DC:‘Kay. Um February of 2008 Michael and I and {SC*****} moved to Arizona. We moved to Phoenix.
330.DC:Um, I got a job at (inaudible). ‘Cause I graduated and so the degree got me a job. Um and, uh, we basically just kind of lived here. Um I, I always, I always kinda knew in the back of my head that if I moved back to Arizona I’d be able to find him. E-, at least it would be easier. You know at least I’d be there. So when he popped up again I’d, you know be there. Um in 2009, I don’t remember when, I think it was early in the year, like spring time. Um, my mom’s husband came home one day and he said I swear I saw Richard and {G*****} at a gas station, here in Phoenix. I, I just, I, I swear that I saw them. And so, um Michael and I decided to do a Google search for Richard. See, you know, just on the off chance what happened. Um and we found out that in 2007 he was actually arrested. By the Phoenix Police. Uh and then we read the story about how he um, had lied to the federal judge. And was awaiting terms on perjury. Um, and this was in 2009 that we found it so it had just happened. Um, and knowing that he was in Arizona, and I was in Arizona, um, I actually went down to the federal detention facility and saw him. And I demanded to know where {G*****} was. And he refused to tell me. All he would tell me is that {G*****} was in good hands. And I said if he’s not with you and he’s not with me, then how can he be in good hands? And, uh, he said well you’re not much of a parent. Um, and the person that he’s with is more of a parent than you are so, he’s in better hands than he would be if he were with you. And I tried to get help, um, knowing that I’m sure {G*****} had gone to see him in jail. Um, they would have a record of the guardian, um that was with him and from there I might be able to find out where my son was. Um, and I contacted the federal uh people and I contacted the state people but nobody would work with me. Because, mm they told me that the issues with my son were state related. And then he was in jail for federal issues. And the feds wouldn’t talk to the state and the state wouldn’t talk to the feds and so neither one of ‘em would do anything. Um, neither one had jurisdiction to do anything. Um and everybody just told me get a lawyer. Um and so I called a dozen different lawyers and I made too much money to get free help. But I didn’t make enough money to pay for the lawyers that would help. They wanted like 4000 dollars as a retainer. And I just didn’t have it. Um, and so I knew that Richard was in jail and that my son was alive, somewhere. But I didn’t know (inaudible). And I couldn’t get anybody to help me. Um, and so 2009, end of 2009 Michael and I separated. Um, it was my decision. Um and I just, it had nothing to do really with him. Um, it had more to do with the fact that I never lived on my own, and had my own place and made my own decisions and, followed my own rules and I really felt like I needed that. You know to find myself and be independent and be my own person. Um and he respected that. And so we separated but it was, we never saw the inside of a courtroom during the divorce. Uh we agreed on everything. Um, and we’re still very close to this day. Uh, very, very good friends. Um, 2010 I met Christopher.
331.BW:Sorry, uh at this point does Michael stay here?
332.DC:Yeah. He was still in Arizona.
333.BW:Okay and {SC*****}?
335.BW:Was with?
336.DC:Well we, we shared.
338.DC:Um, I had him primarily.
340.DC:I, I got primary physical custody. But we had joint legal. Meaning that I just had him at my residence most of the time. But Michael had a say in everything that happened.
342.DC:Um and I never went after child support or anything like that. I knew that he would help wherever he could, so. Uh, 2010 Christopher LOCKNER.
343.BW:Sorry Christopher who?
344.DC:LOCKNER, it’s with a K. That was a guy I met and started dating. Uh, Christopher LOCKNER had a very, very sordid past legal-wise. Been in jail for long time. Many, many years. Uh, but he was really trying to walk the right path. He was a good person. Just messed up. Um, he was very close with his family, uh and uh had a lot of support from his family. Uh we, first year we dated was great. Was really great. Um, 2011, February 2011, I got a letter from Richard. From jail. And the letter basically said do you wanna know where you son is?
345.BW:Is there more to it or?
346.DC:Uh yeah it was um, um, I uh, my time in jail maybe gave me some perspective, I realize that you should probably be in contact with you son. As long as that’s what you want and that’s what he wants and I can’t make any decisions for him, but if you wanna know where he is then I’ll reach out to him and, see if he wants to have communication, he, you know.
347.BW:Opening up the channels almost.
348.DC:Ri-, yeah.
350.DC:Richard is very longwinded. I don’t know if you could tell
352.DC:or not? But nothing he writes is ever short. So yes it was a long letter but essentially that’s what it is. It, it, um so I wrote him back and said absolutely. You know I wanna know where he is. Um, and I told him that I would totally respect, you know, everything that they wanna do. Um, move slow, you know make sure that he’s comfortable. So he uh, Richard and I started correspondence back and forth. I sent him about five letters total. Uh he kept getting moved between Eloy and Florence which are two different detention facilities here in Arizona.
354.DC:Um, so sometimes the letters didn’t get to him until later. Whatever, but um, we sent pictures back and forth so that, you know {G*****} could see pictures of me and I could see pictures of him and, um, I uh, the first phone call, um I believe was in April. March, March or April of 2011. And I spoke with {G*****} on the phone. And it was uh, you know it was, it was kind of uncomfortable, it was awkward. Um ...
355.BW:He’s now 11.
356.DC:Yeah. Well 10, yeah.
357.BW:10, yeah.
358.DC:Um, you know don’t really know each other very well. You know, um, but we’re kinda startin’ to work through it. You know, couple phone calls. Um, talked a lot about video games. That seemed to be the focus of his entire world was video games. Um,
359.BW:Where was he at this point?
360.DC:At that, at that point I still didn’t know.
362.DC:Uh Richard wouldn’t tell me who he was with. Or where he was.
363.BW:And you didn’t ask {G*****}?
364.DC:I didn’t ask. Um, finally apparently Richard asked if it was okay to provide her information to me and she agreed. And so um I was told that he was with Liz. In Carson, California. Um ... one of the agreements between Richard and I was that, uh Richard would let {G*****} move at his own pace and he would not interfere in the relationship between {G*****} and I, building a relationship between the two of us.
366.DC:So. Um, and in return I would respect, you know {G*****}’s feelings and wishes, and also Liz. You know and, and make sure I didn’t move too fast. Um, in June of 2011, uh I drove to California and I saw {G*****} for the first time in 10 years, 9 years. Um, we sat and talked for a long time. We hugged a lot. Um, I got there on a Friday night. We met at a Denny’s. Uh, you know I had somethin’ to drink, you know it was just an (inaudible) meeting. Um, the next day {G*****} spent the whole day with me, um at the hotel. Uh we went swimming at the hotel pool and I realized that he didn’t know how to swim. Um, and so we kind of worked on it a little bit, you know. Uh, uh then I asked him if he wanted to spend the night with us at the hotel. And he is absolutely adamant that he definitely wanted to stay. Um, but Liz came and she said that they already had plans to go to the movie. And that if {G*****} bowed out of it that he would be insulting her and her family, and lying to her. And that they’d already had the conversation and Richard said that he was not allowed to stay the night with me in the hotel room. And so {G*****} crying, left with her.
368.DC:Um ...
369.BW:Sorry you said us, stay with us at the hotel?
370.DC:Oh sorry I was with Christopher.
371.BW:You, Christopher was with?
372.DC:And {SC*****} actually.
374.DC:Was all three, yeah was Christopher, {SC*****} and I. And the boys were jumping on the beds back and forth and having fun. {SC*****} always knew that he had a brother but {G*****} didn’t. So. Um, we decided to actually, since she couldn’t stop us, we went to the movie theatre. (chuckles) Where they were watching the movie. And uh, {G*****} actually chose to sit next to me and we held hands that entire movie. Uh,
375.BW:What’d you see?
376.DC:I don’t even remember.
378.DC:I don’t even remember. I was staring at him the whole time. I don’t even know what movie it was. Um but he got me this little thing from one of the uh, restaurants that they went to, I still have it. He actually uh, you know pipe cleaners?
380.DC:Okay so he made me little, two little figures.
382.DC:One blue, one green. They’re still on the dashboard of my car.
383.BW:Oh cool.
384.DC:Yeah, so. Um, then Sunday we met up again and we left, we drove back to Phoenix. Um, went out again for a second trip in June. Um this time uh we left {SC*****} with my mom. And uh, Christopher and I went out um, and it was really fun, and we had a great time. Uh he was able, he was allowed to stay at the hotel with me that night. And he and I had a really long conversation and I told him that um, with his dad being in jail and facing deportation, that I’m tryin’ to figure out legally what the best thing to do is. Because, the court order is joint custody between him and I. Um but it’s based out of California. And his dad being in Arizona and me being in Arizona, we have to move the case, right? But if his dad is deported, then he can’t have that joint legal custody in the United States and so, um, I was, you know, talking to, to {G*****} about, you know what we’re doing, and um, and my plans and everything. And I also told him that we were going to San Diego on a family vacation in July. And I asked him if he wanted to come. And he, yes, absolutely he wanted to go with us. And so we started planning out how we were gonna go get him for this trip to San Diego. Um, so all through July, uh we’re making the arrangements and uh, the plan was that we were gonna drive out to California, Los Angeles, pick him up from Liz’s house and drive down to San Diego. Um, the week of the trip Liz called me, she asked me if he needed to bring a pillow, blankets, you know what he needed to bring, just to make sure, she’s like he’s super excited, this is really great, everything’s wonderful. Uh we were supposed to leave Friday night. Um, that Thursday, {G*****} called me and he said I’ve changed my mind. And I think a week is too long to be with you. You’re still a stranger to me, and I don’t know you. And I don’t think it’s appropriate. And I was like well, I’m willing to bet you talked to your dad. And he said yeah, I got off the phone with my dad and my dad said that he could not approve of this trip. And so I’m not allowed to go. Uh and I said well, that’s not really your dad’s decision, it’s your decision, about what you wanna do. And, um, I told him I didn’t believe that this was his decision. I don’t believe that that was his, what he really wanted. That I think that he really wanted to go. But he felt like he couldn’t. And uh he started crying. And at that point Liz got on the phone with me and she said that she didn’t approve of the way that I was speaking to {G*****}. And that she would be forbidding any additional phone calls. Um and since the trip was right around the corner, she was going to be taking {G*****} to an undisclosed location. So that I wouldn’t be able to pick him. So we went on the trip without him. Um but on the way back I contacted my attorneys, in Phoenix and I asked ‘em what to do. And they said well, uh take a copy of the court order. Go to California and get your son. That’s, you’re the one that has the legal right to have him. Um and I couldn’t abide by anybody telling me that I couldn’t have my son again. I had been trying really hard to make sure everybody was happy and, at every turn, I just kept getting denied. So um, Christopher and I drove out, and called the police. Uh
385.BW:When was this, sorry?
386.DC:Uh this was July. Uh August, sorry August of 2011. Um, Richard kept saying that he was gonna be released from custody and that he was gonna be allowed to live in the United States again. And so it was just a short time until he was gonna be in California with {G*****}. Um, I didn’t know how he planned on making that work. But, yeah I don’t know the law so whatever. Um, so August uh, it’s like the first week of August. Um, drove out. He was not, him and Liz were not at her house. Um so called the police and I told them that I was there to pick up my son. Um she called, the, the police officers came, uh two, two police officers, a lady and a gentleman. And the lady called Liz and said that she needed to show up with {G*****}. And so Liz showed up with {G*****} and her sister and her brother-in-law and her cousins and a whole host of people. That were all part of Liz’s family. And, uh Liz and the lady officer uh talked for about a half an hour. Um and when they were done, the lady officer came to me and she said I think you’re a total piece of shit. Um, verbatim. Swore at me. Ridiculed me. Called me names. Um, told me I had no right to be there. And that the best course of action for me would just be to return to Phoenix and start giving Liz money. To raise {G*****}. Um, then she said that uh, because Richard had taken {G*****} out of the State of California she had to allow {G*****} to go with me. But, um I was not allowed to take him until she returned, and then she left. And so I sat at Liz’s house for three or four hours. Um and she never came back. And so I called the police department again. And I told, I was so mad. Um I told ‘em they didn’t fix it I would get her badge number. ‘Cause it was completely inappropriate. Um, and so they had another police officer show up. He looked at the documentation, when he showed up she ran right over to him, to try to talk to him and he didn’t talk to her. Um, and he looked at the documentation. Uh and then he took {G*****} aside. And he said that {G*****} had to go with me but that he shouldn’t be scared. There’s no reason to be scared. You know? Um, to look at it like an adventure. You know? And maybe it could be fun. Um, and at that point {G*****} stopped crying. Um, and while we were getting his things, Liz and her family uh, were saying very mean things to me the entire time. Uh until we got in the car and we drove away. Um, uh {G*****} started school right away. Um him and his brother shared a room. Uh,
387.BW:In Phoenix?
388.DC:Yeah. Started acclimating. Uh, an aspect of the story, and the reason I bring up the ex-boyfriend Chris, is because during all of this, Chris started to return to previous behaviours. And so um he was off doing things that were not good.
389.BW:Like crack?
390.DC:Yeah. And drugs. Um, I was very ...
391.BW:Did you guys live together at that time?
394.DC:Yeah and he would just be gone. For hours and hours or days. Just gone. Um, and uh I was uh, I probably shoulda just broken up with him at that point. I (inaudible). Um, but I was
395.BW:Hindsight’s 20/20.
396.DC:Yeah, it is. Um and, and having to deal with Richard and, and just finding {G*****} and working full time. Raising kids. You know, was a little occupied.
398.DC:So. Um, Richard got out in September of, or end of Aug-, August, beginning of September of 2011. He was deported. Uh taken to the border. He crossed over into Vancouver and was there for a total of three days. Um, at which point he turned around, entered the country again and moved in with Liz.
399.BW:How’d he do that?
400.DC:How? I don’t know how.
401.BW:Think he did it legally?
402.DC:Uh no. No I’m pretty sure it wasn’t legally. He, he was officially deported. He was removed.
404.DC:Um, he filed a document with the court in Compton. Called a U-C-C-J-E-A. I was in the process of having a court case moved over from California to Arizona. The custody case.
406.DC:Um, but he filed this U-C-C-J-E-A and it basically said that the home state of the child was California. And the judge in California and the judge in Arizona talked and between the two of them, agreed. (chuckles) And, judge made me return {G*****} to him.
407.BW:Even though he was born, child was born in Arizona.
408.DC:Correct. Yeah. And then he was in California with somebody that was not supposed to have him. She was not a guardian. Uh he never even signed over guardianship to her. Um, but they confirmed the U-C-C-J-E-A and I was required to return {G*****} to him.
409.BW:And when was that?
410.DC:That was November of 2011.
411.BW:(Inaudible) when you had to bring him back?
414.DC:Um, I actually had family that had never met {G*****} coming for Thanksgiving. And uh, I had to give him back a week (inaudible). So. Like my grandparents. Yeah. Um, and that’s really when Richard started the campaign of, what I would consider harassment.
416.DC:Maybe not legally. But to me that’s when it started. Um, that’s when he started monitoring all of my public records. When he started obtaining copies of depositions, he started investigating Christopher. Um he filed a motion of the court to have all custody removed because of Christopher’s criminal record. Um, past criminal record. Um, monitoring all police reports. Um and emailing me, constantly. Um I had an attorney at the time handling the case and he would call and talk to the attorney. So often that I, I ended up having like the 10,000 dollar bill. Because of his communication with my attorney. Um, and all of it was geared toward I’m ignorant, I’m stupid, I don’t know the law and he’s going to do everything. He’s just gonna, you know, handle it all. Um, took me back to court many times, to change custody. Go after child support. Um, and I, it’s all, it was all in Compton so I would have to drive out for every court hearing. Um I had, I talked to {G*****} and {G*****} said that he wanted to live with his dad but he wanted to be with me for visits. And so the first hearing that we went to court, we both agreed that Richard would have primary physical custody. We would have joint legal custody. And I would have visitation. And I knew that Richard didn’t have a job and I knew that Liz, you know, didn’t have a lotta money. So I paid for school supplies, I paid for school clothes, I paid for all visitation. I had the medical insurance, took {G*****} to get the glasses. I handled all of that. Um, but Richard would send me emails and tell me that I should probably just start giving him 700 dollars a month. Otherwise the court would be very mad at me if I didn’t. Um, and would, would demand money. Um, uh every visitation he would, he would mess with it. He would change plane ticket flights um, uh change his mind at the last minute. I would have to drive overnight to go get {G*****} if I wanted to have him at all. Um, uh, one time he sent him literally with the clothes that he was wearing, a video game controller and um a box of Jewish crackers. That was it. For an entire week. And that’s what he sent him with. Um, he also apparently became Jewish at some point. (chuckles) And so um, uh ...
417.BW:Richard became Jewish?
418.DC:Yeah. Yeah and so um, in, you know September of 2011, apparently {G*****} became Jewish also. Because you can just do that. You know Judaism’s like that, could just be like hey ...
419.BW:Welcome to the ...
420.DC:Yeah welcome to the club.
422.DC:Right? Um and so {G*****} would come to me and he’d be like, I can’t eat that food. I can’t do those things. You know, very adamant about the fact that he’s, he’s Jewish. You know. Um even though bacon is his favourite thing in the whole world. Um, anyway. Uh, so 2012 was basically that, it was Christopher getting into trouble. Um me having to appear in court in Compton because Richard filed yet another motion in dealing with the emails. Um, there were times where like, um, the court would have proceeding, there would be legal proceedings and I wouldn’t even know about them until Richard would tell me about them. Like he would know about them before I would. And they were mine. You know so. Um, like at that point I was just like, I’ll just wait for him to tell me when things happen ‘cause he’ll know fir-, you know. Um that was basically my life.
423.BW:And he had to give you no-, some notice before the hearing there.
424.DC:Yeah not even. Now this was like criminal matters that didn’t even involved him.
426.DC:But he was monitoring things so closely that as soon as they happened he knew and he would tell me about them.
427.BW:Oh sorry what was happening ...
428.DC:Yeah with Christopher.
429.BW:With Christopher, okay.
430.DC:Or um I was arrested um in September of 2011.
432.DC:And so he was monitoring the progress of that. Um he got the
433.BW:Sorry you?
434.DC:I was.
436.DC:Yeah. Um the charges were dropped.
438.DC:But um, he had the, you know, the recording with the police, he got the police report, you know. Got copies of all of that ‘cause, um, and then of course that was all submitted to the judge as a reason why all visitation and custody should be removed. Um, and every single time (inaudible) to court um, I just asked for things to remain the same. That’s all I ever asked for. He can have primary physical, we’ll have legal, I have visitation. That’s it. Just don’t change it. And um, in that essence I won. Um, I was able to defend myself in each of these court proceedings. Um, and the judge, Commissioner LOWRY, um, kept postponing the child support hearing. (chuckles) We’re just not gonna do that one yet. And so that was just never determined. Um ...
439.BW:That was Richard asking for the 700 bucks.
442.DC:Well Richard asking for child support.
444.DC:Yeah. Constantly. The whole time. Um, so, October, 2012 Christopher got arrested. Big bad charges. Um, police came to my house, they raided it. Turned the whole house upside down. Found all kinds of stuff that he’d stashed in the house. And he went away. Um, Richard filed all of this with the judge and he call CPS on me. CPS came out, checked out the house. Um ...
445.BW:CPS the
447.BW:Child Protection Services?
450.DC:Yeah. Um, and uh, he filed all of this with the judge in California and said take everything away from her. Monitor visits only. If she has to have visits. Um, that hearing the judge actually denied his motion. But only because Richard didn’t submit it correctly. Um and instead set up for another hearing. Um an actual hearing. Uh and in the second hearing he, Richard asked that the court assess child support immediately because he needed to move to Vancouver. And he wanted to take him with him. ‘Cause he couldn’t get a job in the United States. Um at one point in 2012 he was going by the name of Morgan ROTH.
452.DC:So. Um and I believe that he even got employment in the United States, um in 2012, it was a contract. But it didn’t last long. Um, and, I had about had it. And so I called a tip line. FBI tip line. And I said there is an illegal person living in California trying to take my child. And you guys messed up before because when you arrested him, you didn’t know that he had a child. And so the child went unaccounted for. The first time you had him in custody. Um and you need to do something about it. And so they did their investigation, I gave him his alien identification number. And I called them to let them know that {G*****} would be with me over winter break. Um and January of 2013, January 5th uh Richard was arrested.
453.BW:So and just question about this.
455.BW:Uh sorry January 2000?
456.DC:Uh t-, 13.
459.BW:Um, just write this.
461.BW:So he’s going to court.
463.BW:In Compton for two years.
465.BW:While being in the United States illegally.
467.BW:Representing himself.
469.BW:And they don’t do anything?
470.DC:Mm-mm. Nope it’s a family judge, he didn’t care. I brought it up so many times. At one point in 2012 Richard said that his name was Patrick FOX. Um, and I made a point to the judge in that this is bullshit. And so the judge said I need to see a birth certificate. Um and then we went around and around um, where Richard’s like well I can’t get a birth certificate ‘cause I don’t have any I.D. I can’t get I.D. because I don’t have the birth certificate. Um but
471.BW:And this is still all in?
473.BW:In court?
474.DC:Mm-hmm. Yeah, all of this is in court. Um ...
475.BW:So he’s lying in court basically
477.BW:about his identity.
478.DC:Yeah. Yep, absolutely. Um and I, I tried but, judge didn’t care.
479.BW:Okay. Wow.
481.BW:Okay so January
482.DC:Oh believe me. Yeah. The, it, it’s, it’s, (chuckles), the scars that I have (inaudible). Things that happened.
483.BW:Yeah this is
484.DC:(Inaudible) case.
485.BW:It’s almost like, a movie (inaudible) it’s humourous like,
486.DC:It’s, it is.
487.BW:(Inaudible) like after,
489.BW:now we can laugh at it but.
490.DC:Right it’s, it, I know. Like seriously? I mean, the way that {G*****} ended up with Liz. When Richard was arrested in 2007. They had already worked out a plan. Where {G*****} would go to the neighbour’s house and call Liz. And that’s what happened. Richard was arrested and my seven year old went to a neighbour’s house, on his own, and called Liz. And she drove from L.A. to Arizona, picked him up and drove him back to L.A. Even though my phone number and my mom’s number (inaudible) in that phone.
492.DC:But that was what they had arranged.
493.BW:And that’s all {G*****} knew.
494.DC:That’s all he knew.
496.DC:And then of course I got that thrown back at me from Richard. And he said um, well clearly {G*****} loved Liz more than you. And trusted her because if he really wanted to be with you, then he would have called you and not her.
499.BW:If he doesn’t know your name or face. It’s kinda hard to say that.
500.DC:Well and if, apparently Richard has told {G*****} his entire life that I abandoned him. And that the reason he was premature is because I punched myself in the stomach. And so {G*****} grew up believing that I tried to abort him. And when it didn’t work that I abandoned. So yeah. Pretty sure he’s not gonna call me.
503.BW:That’s terrible.
504.DC:(voice shaky) Was really bad. Um ...
505.BW:Take (inaudible), it’s okay.
506.DC:Oh sorry. Mm. Yeah. Um ...
507.BW:We’re in January,
508.DC:Of 2013.
509.BW:in 2013 he gets arrested.
510.DC:Yeah he gets arrested. Um
511.BW:And this is kind of really the start of everything now.
512.DC:Yeah. Well and even though it, it, it was really 2014, so 2013 was a really quiet year. And I, I supposed it’s because Richard didn’t really have any money.
514.DC:And he was trying to establish himself up in Canada. Um, he uh, he actually entered again in March of 2013. Uh he thought that there was a court hearing on record. Um and he appeared in court in Compton for that hearing in March of 2013. Um he didn’t know that that hearing had been pulled off calendar. That it was no longer going to happen. Um and I called the FBI agent, um that morning, (chuckles), (inaudible), aw, I wish I was a fly on the wall. (chuckles) (Inaudible). I worked all night long. And I get a call from the court, the mediator and she said you’re supposed to be here in court for mediation, I said no that’s off calendar. And she said well I’m not showing that. Said you need to call the judge you know, and, and work that out because it’s not, no longer a hearing that we’re having. I said it doesn’t matter anyway, the father’s been deported to Canada. And she said well he’s sitting right here looking at me. Oh. Okay.
515.BW:So you're in Arizona hearing
517.BW:that he’s now back in the country.
518.DC:Yep. So uh, I called the FBI agent that I had been working with and I left a message for him. Two hours later he calls me and uh he’s like, so what’s going on and I tell him the situation, and he’s like well, he’s probably not still there but I’ll, you know I’ll head down there, you know it’s been a couple hours I’m sure he’s, you know gone. And next thing I know he’s arrested again.
520.DC:From the courthouse.
521.BW:So this is in March?
522.DC:(makes sound)
524.DC:So if you can picture it, there’s Richard at the courthouse arguing with them. Demanding that this hearing is supposed to happen. And trying to figure out why it’s not scheduled. Knowing that he’s here illegally. And then the FBI walk in. And arrest him.
526.DC:Yeah. Yeah.
528.DC:So, um at that point after that, uh, he stopped trying to (inaudible) back. Um and it was, it was actually really quiet. Um, I had {G*****} um, I, I had requested sole custody at that point since Richard was out of the country. Um and it, it got approved. So I had custody of, of {G*****}.
529.BW:In Arizona?
531.BW:Or in?
532.DC:Well it was in Compton. I, I went out to Compton to request it. Um, uh and it was, it was actually very quiet. Um, the, the ruling was that I would have custody of {G*****} but when Richard got on his feet, he could petition the court to have that changed. Uh it seemed, honestly throughout the entire thing that the judge was really supportive of Richard.
534.DC:And I didn’t know why. I really didn’t. Uh, but that’s what I faced. You know. Um, and uh, and so he filed a, a request and um asked for it to be changed. Um, uh, it was not. But visitation was then established. And so um starting in December of 2013, {G*****} started spending every school break with his dad.
535.BW:Sorry when was this?
536.DC:Uh O-, uh December of 2013. So he spent the full uh winter break. Up with his father, in Canada. So it was, you know the two weeks over December and January of 2013, uh, yeah. 2013 to 2014.
537.BW:In Vancouver then?
540.DC:Yeah. He spent spring break there. He spent the entire summer there. He spent fall break of 2014. He spent winter break of 2014. He spent, (chuckles), literally every visitation {G*****} was with his dad up in Vancouver. Um, but, March of 2014 is when everything really started. And the emails. The emails always happened.
542.DC:I mean, hundreds.
543.BW:I think I, we’ve kinda, you’ve sent me a tonne of emails.
546.DC:Oh that’s not, that’s a fraction.
547.BW:Uh yeah that, it’s obviously, uh we can just quickly go over it. It’s generally him arranging.
549.BW:Uh visitation but, being a dick.
551.BW:Um ...
552.DC:(chuckles) Yeah.
553.BW:I’m tryin’ to think of way like ...
554.DC:No it is.
555.BW:‘Cause what you’re showing me is, is he’s going all about this.
557.BW:Um, you guys are going at each other.
559.BW:‘Cause I’m only seeing one side but, it looks bad for him.
560.DC:Well, there, the majority of the emails I don’t respond to.
562.DC:If I respond to ‘em I’ll respond to a single email. But then he follows it up with four more.
564.DC:Right? Um, and at some point I have to stand up for myself. At some point, I can’t just keep getting beaten down.
566.DC:By this. So, there are responses to some of the emails. But the volume, (chuckles) of emails that he sent.
568.DC:Um, what I responded to, and the, what I tried to respond with, was minimal. Right? Uh, unfortunately uh not responding to those emails, hurt my relationship with {G*****}. And the reason why is because Richard kept telling {G*****} everything and kept including {G*****} in all of the emails. And I would never respond. And so {G*****} was only getting one side of that story, ever. And so he’d never listen to a thing I’d say.
570.DC:Um and that was part of the reason I started responding to the emails. And at one point {G*****} was like, I’m really glad that you’re standing up for yourself Mom. I’m glad that you’re not just taking it.
571.BW:He’s 14 now? So he
572.DC:He’s 15 now but,
574.DC:Yeah but,
575.BW:No at this time this is about ff,
576.DC:Yeah at that time he’s like 13, 14 years old.
577.BW:Okay. So he’s understanding what’s going on.
578.DC:He’s starting to. Right? Um, and, and he’s like yeah I’m, I’m really glad to see you're responding to that, you’re not just, you know accepting it. Um, and part of that was to show {G*****} that just because his dad kept saying these things, didn’t mean that they were true. You know? Um, and so it’s not just me being a dick or going back and forth with, with him and bantering, you know bickering back and forth. Um, I would have rather not responded to anything ever, that that man said, there’s no point in a conversation with him. Um, but stand up for myself and show {G*****} that, just because he’s saying it doesn’t mean it’s (inaudible).
580.DC:You know. So I didn’t respond to some of them. Um, and then after a while I just got so tired of it I just started messing with him. You know, some of the things I’d respond with I’d be like, I just don’t even care anymore. Um, but it, it had been years of getting these emails.
582.DC:To the point that I actually started responding like that. Um ...
583.BW:So at this point you don’t have the order of protection.
585.BW:So this is
586.DC:No this is way before.
587.BW:Yeah this is
588.DC:This is, we’re like March of 2014.
590.DC:I’m at work.
591.BW:You guys are trying to communicate with each other.
592.DC:Well {G*****} is going up there for visits.
594.DC:Um and I’m
595.BW:And you’re trying to obviously arrange those visits.
596.DC:Yeah, yeah,
598.DC:I’m, I’m workin’ on those. Um and making sure, you know, and of course um, uh, any time I don’t explicitly comply with what he’s demanded he threatens to take me back to court. You know. Um, constantly trying to keep the upper hand. You know which is, I’m used to it.
599.BW:What do you mean by that?
600.DC:Um, you have to send him to me on these dates, even if it’s in the middle of the work week and I don’t give a fuck if it dep-, if it interferes with your job. Because the court doesn’t care about your job, and the court doesn’t care about you. So if you don’t take time off of work and send him to me on the exact day that I want, then I’m gonna take you back to court and I’m gonna take away visitation and custody.
604.DC:You know um you have to do what I say. That’s what I mean by that. It was, it was always you have to do what I say.
605.BW:Mmm hmm.
606.DC:And honestly with the way that the court proceedings went um I was scared. To not do what he said. You know.
607.BW:Yeah (inaudible)
608.DC:I bend over backwards.
610.DC:Everything. Um, ah that first um, winter break in 2013 2014 I guess Richard spent like $6000 on {G*****} while he was there. Um, and then when he send him back he started sending all kinds of stuff ah satin sheets for {G*****}’s bed. Um feather down comforters. Um 4 different video game consoles. Um boxes of candy um credit cards, clothes like brand name clothes and he just kept sending this stuff to {G*****} at my house. Meanwhile my other kid {SC*****}, like we’re just not have all that stuff right? Um, and I, I, I told Richard he had to stop. And that was, that was a World War III. That was, that was I’m denying my own son because I’m white trash and broke and don’t have enough money to take care of my other kid. And so {G*****} has to suffer. Um but it took me months to tell him to stop because I was scared to tell him to stop. I, I really, I didn’t know if I was allowed. To tell him to stop. Um, so March of 2014, I’m at work. And ah, a manager walks up to me not my manager a project manager walks up to me and she says,
611.BW:Sorry where you working at?
612.DC:Apollo. Still. Same job I got in 2008. Same company.
614.DC:Um, she came up and she said it’s none of my business and I certainly won’t judge. Um, but you might not wanna put on your Linkedin profile that you’re a stripper. And ah I, said I don’t, I don’t, what are you talking about. She said your Linkedin profile it says you’re a stripper and you smoke pot. And I’m no. So I went to my Linkedin profile and sure enough there was a secondary profile connected. Um, that said I, I was a stripper and it listed some stripper club that I worked at apparently and said that I smoke pot and I drink beer and I watch fighting and um I’m only concerned about myself and I don’t give a shit about my kids.
615.BW:So this is a second profile that’s linked?
616.DC:Yeah it’s like,
617.BW:Can you explain that?
618.DC:Like my main profile is there.
620.DC:But then there’s like,
621.BW:The one you created.
622.DC:Yeah and then there’s like this linked secondary profile. That’s like there it’s got my picture. And it’s got all of this other information on it. Um and people that I work with are actually like starting to connect to the secondary profile cuz the request went out to everybody and so they’re like yeah I’ll connect cuz you know I know her. I work with her. And so they’re connecting to this Linkedin profile um and so I contacted Linkedin and I told them what the situation was and they said well we can’t tell you who created it. But we will take it down um and by the time they took it down there were like over 60 people that I worked with that were connected to it. And I work, I work in technology. I work in the IT department so,
623.BW:Mmm hmm.
624.DC:The position that I had, I worked with absolutely every single area within the organization from executive management all the way down to just your,
625.BW:Mmm hmm.
626.DC:Every day user. Um and so I had CEOs, I had CFOs connected to it. Um director level people connected to it. Um,
628.DC:Yeah that ah, that a, connected to this profile that says I’m, I’m a stripper.
629.BW:Mmm hmm.
630.DC:So I got the Linkedin profile taken down and I’m like okay. Um, fine good that’s taken care of and I thought at that point that I was done. But a couple weeks later, an e-mail went out to the people that were connected to Linkedin the, the, the connections that I had. An e-mail went out to them. And um, the e-mail included um, sections of e-mails back and forth between Richard and I um e-mails that I had sent to him, sections of them um, and ah, my arrest record um other information that they probably just should not have had. I have a legal marihuana card and so that he sent. Um, and it was all from an e-mail address Desi CAPUANO. So it wasn’t my actual e-mail address but it was my name. Um, and, a link to the website. And that was how I first found out about the website. And I actually had to walk back into work. Knowing that they’d all seen it. Um, a few weeks later, a second e-mail got sent um Apollo owns the University of Phoenix. You know (inaudible) University of Phoenix (inaudible) like the online college.
631.BW:Mmm hmm okay yeah.
632.DC:Okay. So Apollo owns them and so I worked in the core IT department that ran the college. Um, so the first e-mail went to Apollo. Ah hold on (inaudible). Oh okay um, ah, so the first e-mail went to just Apollo. And the second e-mail that he sent went to all of the Apollo people. And then it went to 600 people that worked for University of Phoenix. And that e-mail included my income and expense declaration. That I had to provide to the court. Um, e-mails back and forth. And specifically a single sentence um that taken out of context makes me look like a racist. Um, documentation again for the marihuana card um and the website.
633.BW:Um, sorry income records.
634.DC:Mmm hmm ah e-mails.
635.BW:A marihuana card and then the link to the website?
638.DC:Yeah um, so I, I called the police ah and they filed a report in Phoenix.
639.BW:When was that?
640.DC:Um, April, May of 2014. Um, they had 2 officers come out and talk to me um again they filed a report. I guess the one officer called Richard and talked to him. About what was going on. Um, and ah company had to put in a lot of security measures um and of course I started getting e-mails from random people that I work with you know um and Richard knows how to, how to manipulate. He’s really good at it and so he, he included this entire thing about how {G*****} doesn’t love me and doesn’t wanna be with me and I keep fighting for him um not caring about how he feels and so I’d get random e-mails from people that I worked with saying things like you should just let your son go live with him. You know you’re an awful person and,
641.BW:So people have responded now (inaudible)
644.DC:Yep. Um, ah and it was going to personal e-mails as well as work e-mails. Ah the personal e-mails he actually got from Linkedin. When he connected
645.BW:Whoever, yeah whoever sets up the profile,
646.DC:Mmm hmm.
647.BW:(inaudible) okay.
648.DC:Well yeah ah he had, he had created the secondary profile so he was able to get all those personal and work e-mail addresses from the Linkedin. Um and I sent him an e-mail and I told him to stop. I told him that this was harassment um that this is not conducive to us trying to raise {G*****}. This is not helpful um and he just he needed, he needed to stop um and his response was that it wasn’t him. Um but if somebody were doing to, this to me it would be totally justified. Ah he sent me an e-mail at one point um asking me how it felt knowing that every time I walk down the hallways ah at work everybody there had seen me in my underwear. Cuz of the pictures that were up on the website. Um, I had ah, I’d gotten outta the shower I had a bathrobe on and {G*****} walks into my room and he’s giggling. He’s laughing. And he says I wanna take a picture of you and I was like well I just got outta the shower he’s like no it’s perfect I wanna take a picture of you. And ah he took the picture and 2 days later it was up on website. So he was using his son to get a lot of the information. And then he put up that um the pictures he accessed through {G*****}’s facebook account. Before I locked it down and (inaudible) um, he’d, he had these avenues worked out before I ever even considered him. You know um, ah then he sent the e-mails to the board of directors. That was a fun one. Um,
649.BW:When was that?
650.DC:That was right around the same time it was ah, June I think 2014. Um,
651.BW:To Apollo?
652.DC:Yeah board of directors of Apollo. Any time you work in, in a company there’s a, a convention for how the e-mail addresses are done whether it’s,
653.BW:Mmm hmm.
654.DC:First initial, last name or first name dot last name or,
656.DC:Right and then at whatever the company is.
658.DC:Okay so he figured that out. So then he went and he found the board of directors. Names.
659.BW:The names are up there (inaudible)
660.DC:Mmm hmm.
661.BW:Figure that out.
662.DC:Yep and he already knew the name and convention so he sent the e-mail to the board of directors and that one was um, I smoke pot and there’s not a fucking thing you can do about it. Signed Desiree CAPUANO.
664.DC:Well from that,
665.BW:From the
667.BW:e-mail site?
668.DC:Yeah. Not my actual e-mail address but it’s something,
670.DC:That had my name. Ah, and then of course you know um people I worked with ah friends um associates, all different levels um coming to me all the time asking me why I would put up a website like that you know why I would have that kind of information out there about myself. Um, ah, and I’d, I’d have to tell them you know it’s not me. That’s, that’s not me. Um, ah Apollo actually got their legal department involved. And the legal department of Apollo, worked with Go Daddy. Which is who it was hosted through originally.
671.BW:Mmm hmm.
672.DC:And Go Daddy made him take it down. Ah which is when he started hosting it on his home computer. In Burnaby.
674.DC:Um July of 2014 is when James and I started dating.
676.DC:So he actually worked at Apollo. And was aware of the situation. Everybody at Apollo was aware of the situation. It’s, um, but I had worked there for so long and established myself that ah my reputation was very, very good and he wasn’t able to damage that.
677.BW:That’s good.
678.DC:Yeah. Um so I had a lot of support there. Ah, it was a lot of e-mails, a lot of going back and forth um, ah you know issues with visitation, whatnot um he would send me e-mails about how many hits the website was getting um the traffic that was going on it, plans that he had about you know tweaking the website so that it showed more um, just all kinds of things. Ah constantly um, December of 2014 is when he sent the e-mail um saying that while he was up there while {G*****} was up there {G*****} asked him if he’d ever shoot me. Um and he told him that you know the (inaudible) for that is, is life in prison and it’s not worth it but if, if that weren’t the case then yeah he absolutely would. Um,
679.BW:So that’s the first time,
680.DC:Mmm hmm.
681.BW:That (inaudible) talked about it it was based on the e-mail that he sent you.
682.DC:Mmm hmm. Yeah where he told me that. Um before that he,
683.BW:That’s an interesting statement so send in an e-mail,
685.BW:Like without,
686.DC:I thought so too. Well and, and it’s a really long e-mail thread back and forth and ah my response to him was basically just listen. None of this has anything to do with {G*****}. And I, I will always love {G*****} no matter what he chooses to do. Um and he responded with this really long thing um where one of them was um, my ultimate goal is to get you to commit suicide. Um, ah another part of that same e-mail was {G*****} and I talked about it, I would shoot you if I could um and then the last paragraph was um I’ve explained all of this to {G*****} and he knows that he’s a pawn in my plan to destroy your life and he has no issues with it. Um,
687.BW:You talk to {G*****} about that?
688.DC:Yeah. {G*****} knew everything that was going on before I did.
689.BW:And what’s {G*****} say?
690.{ V04 - Redacted by Crown Counsel }
691.{ V04 - Redacted by Crown Counsel }
692.{ V04 - Redacted by Crown Counsel }
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700.DC:I would ask him about certain things like um, whether or not he wanted to visit with me, whether or not you know, some of the things that Richard would say were just awful as a parent. Awful. Um, and ah I would ask {G*****} about those things and he’d be like no mom that’s not true. You know.
702.DC:Um but he knew about the website, he knew about the e-mails, he knew about all of those things before I did. Um, he also, like when I found out about the punching myself in the stomach thing I brought it up to {G*****} he’s like yeah I know. And I was like dude seriously. That is just ridiculous. Now I joke around with him um and so when he does something that’s dumb cuz kids do, (inaudible) oh man that was probably cuz I punched myself in the stomach. And then we laugh.
703.BW:And he takes it as a joke knowing,
704.DC:Of course,
706.DC:Yeah no. I was like, listen I mean that’s not even within the realm of,
709.BW:But he believed it for a certain time.
710.DC:Yeah. Yeah he did.
712.DC:Yeah he did. Um,
715.BW:You covered the e-mails there about that,
717.BW:There’s some other things that happen about potentially,
718.DC:It was,
719.BW:The firearms.
720.DC:Yeah so um he ah, he brought that up right away um it was, it was the summer of 2014 was like July of 2014 when he started using Patrick FOX identity and um, literally like e-mail, e-mail, e-mail, e-mail, e-mail from Richard RIESS and then the next day Patrick FOX e-mail.
721.BW:What was his e-mail address?
723.BW:And then,
724.DC:It was patrickfox@solaronics.
726.DC:Like literally, the next day.
728.DC:Right? Um and then 2 days later it’s, I’ve never been Richard RIESS. I was never that person. Why do you insist on calling me Richard RIESS, I’m Patrick FOX I’ve always been Patrick FOX. I think Richard RIESS is dead. And I’m like well what. What are you talking about. You can’t just up and, nope. Apparently you can, if you’re him.
730.DC:Apparently you can um and one of the first things that he sent me was his gun licence. And he,
731.BW:So he actually, that’s how you sent me the scanned copy right?
732.DC:Mmm hmm.
734.DC:Yeah he sent it to me.
735.BW:You sent me a PDF,
737.BW:Document or a PDF copy of his firearms licence.
740.DC:Yeah. And he sent it to me. And this all came up because he started using the Patrick FOX identity. However, custody is all under Richard RIESS. Um, which means like the visitation approval is for Richard RIESS. {G*****}’s birth certificate is listed as the father is Richard RIESS.
741.BW:Mmm hmm.
742.DC:His passport. Says that the father is Richard RIESS. All of the documentation that ties {G*****} to anything, is under the name Richard RIESS. And so for him to say that he’s Patrick FOX and he has no identity in the name Richard RIESS concerned me. Sending my son up to Canada.
743.BW:Mmm hmm.
744.DC:Right? Cuz if anything were to happen, there’s no tie between this kid and Patrick FOX. Um and so I told him that I wasn’t gonna send {G*****} to him unless he can provide documentation that he had some identity in the name Richard RIESS. Ah anything um and he asked me if the deportation paperwork would, would be sufficient I said yeah that’s fine it has your picture, it has your name. That’ll work. That’s where he sent me the copy of the deportation paperwork. That e-mail was followed up immediately, with an e-mail says the ugly truth. And talking about how here’s his British Columbia ID, here’s a paycheck stub with the name Patrick FOX. Here’s a birth certificate um says he was born in Florida with the name Patrick FOX and here’s his gun licence. Oh and by the way, he’s allowed to own guns and shoot guns and he does all the time. And they wouldn’t do that if he wasn’t actually Patrick FOX. Because he’s got this criminal record under Richard RIESS. And so if he just changed his name, legally then his previous criminal record would follow him and they would never give him a gun licence.
745.BW:Mmm hmm.
746.DC:Right so he’s always been Patrick FOX. That’s basically where that came from.
747.BW:For a, a week.
748.DC:Yeah, no yeah.
750.DC:For like the last 3 days.
752.DC:You, always yeah and then he tried to tell me that back in 2000 um ah that he made all of that up. And that you know he, he hired actors and, and, and staged all of that with his dad. And his mom and, and the person that came down wasn’t actually his half-brother. He paid somebody to, like seriously. Really. And but, but he seriously thought that I would buy it. Like pushed it and pushed it which is why I get really bent outta shape at the whole Patrick FOX identity like just literally, up one day.
753.BW:Mmm hmm.
754.DC:And it was like that’s, that’s, that’s it that’s who you are um, I hate that ah and it really, I sent {G*****} to him um and ah filled out all of the minor children for the transferring information.
755.BW:Mmm hmm.
756.DC:Under the name Richard RIESS and when they asked him who his father was he said Patrick FOX. And that just made me so mad. I was like you, you’re brainwashing your kid. Into believing that that’s his name. (inaudible)
757.BW:So this is the, you did sent him up the,
758.DC:I did.
760.DC:Yeah I did.
761.BW:And when was that?
762.DC:Um that was December of 2014. Um, and again it was because I was court ordered to. I was, I was required to provide reasonable visitation and communication between the 2 of them. That was, that was the court order.
763.BW:Mmm hmm.
764.DC:So I did.
765.BW:Was there any issues on that trip?
766.DC:Ah no.
768.DC:No there were a lot of e-mails about how I was a horrible mother and {G*****} had turned into his awful and lazy person and ah my response is, {G*****}, stop acting like a teenager. You’re freaking your dad out. Know what I mean cuz he’s 13 years old, 14 years old of course it’s gonna, he’s gonna be lazy he’s a teenager right that’s what they do um, spring ah break of 2015 I kept {G*****} um because I actually took him to go see my dad. Um, his maternal grandfather who he’d never met before. And on that trip we went down and he got to meet his great grandparents also. Um, and as soon as Richard found out, ah he sent an e-mail bashing my family. Calling them white trash and all kinds of things. That were not nice. Um, then ah summer. Summer of 2015 that’s when everything really went bad. Um, I moved from { V01 - Redacted by Crown Counsel }. With James. Um, ah, I would not give Richard the address. The physical address because one he lived in a different country. And wasn’t allowed in the United States and so there was absolutely no reason for him to have it. And two, because all of my personal information was up on a website and I didn’t want this address up on the website.
769.BW:Just another thing.
770.DC:Yeah right (inaudible) my house you know it was James’ house right? Um and so he said that he wasn’t actually going to return {G*****} to me at all um he said he was gonna go to the Vancouver um courts and have them override the decision in California and um make sure that I don’t, that he didn’t have to return {G*****} to me. Um and that the Vancouver court would take over the custody issues and that he would just (inaudible) up there. Um, and I told him that’s not how, it works. Um but even the day that {G*****} was supposed to be returning, that day Richard send me an e-mail and said he was not going to send him back. Um so I went to the airport not knowing if {G*****} would be on the plane. I had no idea. Um, and of course I had like 3 different things mapped out for what to do in case you know one of any situation happened so I had to make sure that I had everything lined up for any eventual possibility you know um, {G*****} was back not a week and the address was up on the website. Um, he, Richard actually had ah, a, {G*****} had a cell phone, he had had the cell phone that his dad paid for, for a year and a half. Um and apparently he had been tracking {G*****} through the phone.
771.BW:Like a find my iPhone or.
772.DC:Mmm hmm. Yeah location um found the address, did the reverse look up found out who owned the house.
773.BW:Put 2 and 2 together?
776.DC:Yeah and that’s how he ended up with the address.
777.BW:Does he work like,
779.BW:I know we’ve talked about job like this is, time consuming.
780.DC:(inaudible) sounds like it’s a full time job right?
781.BW:Yeah, yeah.
782.DC:Yeah. Yeah but again he’s a programmer. That’s what he does.
784.DC:He writes code. So um he’s always on the computer anyway. Um, ah so that’s when we called the RCMP. Originally and ah, you know and told them that this was what was going on he sent me that really nasty e-mail about the rash on {G*****}’s neck. Um, and I just, I was so done. I was just so tired. So I called the RCMP um, the first ah, Constable that I got um, was not very helpful. Ah and then I called back again very adamant because he just kept sending more stuff and then he was involving other people. And then he started putting James’ information up on the website and so I got really mad and so I called back up there and I got a different Constable um who really seemed to um, find it offensive. Um and so I started working with him. Um, and ah, in October I went, came down here. And I got the um, actually it was July. It was right around the same time that I, I called the Constable ah the RCMP I came down here and I got the order of protection. Um, he requested a hearing for it, that happened in October of 2015. Ah it got upheld.
785.BW:So is that ah was he (inaudible)
786.DC:No called over the phone,
788.DC:He appeared over the phone.
789.BW:Ah so Richard requested a ah,
790.DC:Phone. Yeah.
791.BW:Phone hearing.
792.DC:Mmm hmm yeah um to contest it.
793.BW:And were you there?
794.DC:Yeah. Yeah. Ah James and I were both there.
795.BW:And it was upheld?
796.DC:It was upheld yeah. The um, it’s up on his website.
797.BW:Mmm hmm.
798.DC:It’s not all of it, he removed a lot of it. Um, det ah Detective MONTOYA actually appeared. Um, he spoke on our defense we subpoenaed him. James’ mother was there um cuz Richard has actually gone to her Linkedin profile and viewed all of her people multiple times um and I for one know what he does with Linkedin. So that’s very dangerous.
799.BW:Mmm hmm.
801.BW:So in July of,
802.DC:Mmm hmm. Yeah well July is just when we got the initial.
805.BW:So the order of protection,
806.DC:Mmm hmm.
807.BW:Ah tell me what that is.
808.DC:Well it basically says that he can’t contact me he can’t come around me. And he cannot harass me.
809.BW:Pretty vague.
810.DC:Pretty vague. Um, and at that time we presented the information that we had but she hadn’t heard his side of the story and so it was, it was more so just he can’t come around.
811.BW:Mmm hmm.
812.DC:He can’t you know be physicall8y near me or um, or really contact me. Ah,
813.BW:And at this point he’s been 2 years out of the country.
814.DC:Mmm hmm.
815.BW:(inaudible) almost 3 years.
816.DC:Mmm hmm.
817.BW:Outta the country so it,
819.BW:There isn’t much,
820.DC:Right yeah,
822.DC:And at that point I mean yeah when she says you know you can’t come around it’s like well that’s not really gonna do me any good but, my thinking and my feeling on that was that an order of protection is what is required to take down the website. Right is,
824.DC:It’s, I need that in order to have any legal basis. To remove any of the things that he’s done.
826.DC:And that’s what I needed it for. And so while it didn’t really help with him coming into contact with me it did help (inaudible) ways and that’s why we went after it.
827.BW:Okay so that’s an Arizona State,
828.DC:Mmm hmm.
829.BW:Order of protection.
831.BW:Do you know, if that enforceable in United States,
835.BW:So to that (inaudible)
837.BW:Is it ah, what’s the court level then it would be,
838.DC:Well so that was a municipal um I got the initial order through the municipal court,
840.DC:In October. It was upheld in the municipal court so that’s just here. Um, but when it was upheld in October, he was also put on the brady index which means he’s not allowed to have, possess own or, or obtain firearms or ammunition or weapons of any kind.
841.BW:Mmm hmm.
842.DC:That’s nationwide.
844.DC:Um in the hearing in October, um, when the judge was presented with all of the information and she got to hear both sides of the story, she actually made a determination that um not only does the order of protection ah handle um him coming into contact with me. But that it does cover the harassment it covers the website it covers all of the things that he’s been doing as harassment.
846.DC:Um and that those are considered ah domestic ah abuse. And that those are covered.
847.BW:So that was the updated order.
848.DC:Yeah, yeah in October.
849.BW:October order.
850.DC:Yeah. Yep um, then ah he contested it again. In Superior Court. Of Arizona.
851.BW:That’s the highest level right?
852.DC:Yeah. Yeah besides Supreme at the national federal level.
854.DC:But I don’t think the, I, I don’t know um but Superior it is for Arizona.
855.BW:Mmm hmm.
856.DC:But every state can see it.
858.DC:So they can all see.
859.BW:So he contested it (inaudible) Supervisor and what happened then?
860.DC:Um, well ah, that was the hearing that was ah, it was on June 7th. Um, he made no plans to appear by phone. He made no arrangements to appear (inaudible)
861.BW:Mmm hmm.
862.DC:Um, but apparently he was already in custody. Cuz he was picked up on the 27th in the United States.
863.BW:Mmm hmm.
864.DC:So 10 days before that court hearing he was found in the United States.
865.BW:Did that be, did you go through with the hearing?
866.DC:Mmm hmm.
867.BW:And what?
868.DC:The Judge said that she had more than enough evidence to make a ruling um and that she was upheld, holding um everything that he was absolutely on the brady index, that was not gonna change. Um and that everything is now a felony, it’s a felony because it’s all (inaudible) he’s been told to stop the harassment.
869.BW:Mmm hmm.
870.DC:He’s been told that the website is harassment um and that him continuing to keep it up and post on it and update it and use it is aggravated. Harassment. In a Superior court.
871.BW:Perfect okay.
873.BW:So we’re now, he’s been picked up.
875.BW:Obviously you’ve spoke with people since he was picked up um,
877.BW:You spoke with my partner Cst. KAM.
878.DC:Mmm hmm.
879.BW:Who took a audio statement from you and then my part, ah my partner Cst. MACKAY over the skype,
881.BW:We took an audiotaped as well.
885.BW:How do you feel over, knowing what’s happened like you know we seized some firearms in,
886.DC:Mmm hmm.
887.BW:Los Angeles just with the Los Angeles (inaudible)
888.DC:Mmm hmm.
890.DC:Mmm hmm.
891.BW:Um, you know who they were found ah the house they were found at.
893.BW:You, we’ve talked about this how do you feel about that?
894.DC:Ah, there’s, there’s a lot of different emotions. There’s a lot um, above and beyond anything I am so entirely grateful. That the guns were seized and that he’s in custody.
895.BW:Mmm hmm.
896.DC:Above and beyond. Um,
897.BW:That’s the good.
898.DC:Yeah that’s the good. Like completely like above all,
900.DC:That is, but um, confusion, fear.
901.BW:Fear’s a big one right that,
902.DC:Fear’s, for the first time ever in the course of my life I actually had to come to terms with the fact that at the end of this I might be dead.
904.DC:He shipped, he shipped the firearms. To the State next to mine. And was on his way 10 days before a court hearing where he knew exactly where I would be, and when. And he’d never made arrangements to appear over the phone. For a hearing he requested.
905.BW:Mmm hmm.
908.DC:I, there is no question in my mind that he woulda been here. With the gun. And nobody woulda known. If he had made it past Washington, nobody woulda known.
910.DC:Nobody woulda known to check on him. Nobody woulda known until it was too late. I, I’d never been more scared. I was actually at work when I got the call that his apartment was empty. And the guns were, were missing. And I,
911.BW:I phoned you ah about that I believe.
912.DC:KAM. She did.
913.BW:Oh she did, ah sorry then.
916.DC:Um, I actually had to walk behind a wall. And I fell down and just started hyperventilating. That’s,
917.BW:You were scared at this point right?
920.DC:Um, ah, he, he disappears so easy. He, he knows exactly how to go missing. And how to disappear. He’s done it so many times. And,
921.BW:You’ve done, you’ve said now probably 5 times you’ve seen or?
924.DC:Easily. When he, sidetrack. When he was here in 2005 in Arizona. He loved Liz. Liz didn’t know where he was. He was living with her. Him and {G*****} were living with her, in Ari, in, in LA in 2003. And he just left. With {G*****}. She had no idea how to get ahold of him. She had no idea where he was, she, he did it to her. He knows exactly how to do so. And given the chance, that’s what he’s gonna do.
925.BW:Mmm hmm.
926.DC:Um, and what maybe started out as hatred, he’s more than welcome to hate me. I don’t, I don’t care. I get it. I don’t, I’m not particularly fond of him either. Right? That’s fine but that has grown into something so much more. That it, he’d take me out if he could and I know he would.
927.BW:Do you think he would hurt {G*****}?
928.DC:No but I think he would hurt {SC*****}.
929.BW:Yeah? Out of,
930.DC:Spite. Yeah.
931.BW:How about James?
932.DC:He’d probably leave James alone. Because according to him James doesn’t really have much to do with this. But me and {SC*****}, yeah. He would.
933.{ V01 - Redacted by Crown Counsel }
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937.{ V01 - Redacted by Crown Counsel }
938.DC:{ V01 - Redacted by Crown Counsel } our address is still up on that website.
940.DC:And the people that would read that website are the sick people. They’re the people that are (inaudible)
942.DC:Right and those would be the people that would try to find um and 2 because that poor kid should not have to deal with this. You know he’s been dealing with it every day. Ah basically his entire life you know and it’s not fair to him. { V01 - Redacted by Crown Counsel }
944.DC:So um, sorry.
945.BW:That’s okay take your time.
947.BW:You know what Desiree I think we have a lot here.
949.BW:I think we,
950.DC:Good well we’re up to date right?
951.BW:Yeah we’re up, (inaudible)
952.DC:Does it make more sense now?
953.BW:It does, it makes a lot of sense and I, I, I really appreciate you spending some time,
954.DC:And I know it’s so,
955.BW:Talking about this cuz,
956.DC:It’s so back and forth and, and so many things.
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970.DC:So um, yeah. He’s already said he won’t ever, ever stop.
972.DC:And I don’t know why. Like there’s, there’s, I’ve had more than my fair share of, of fault in this. I, I get that, bad choices, bad decisions, handling things wrong not makin’ the right choices. Um and I’m sure I hurt him along the way many times. And ah, um, but I, I don’t, this, this, this level um I don’t think is normal.
973.BW:Yeah there comes a point where you kinda all have to wash away (inaudible) wash your hands and say,
975.BW:We’re done.
976.DC:And I kept telling him, every, like up, up until now even. If he’d just stop and be like alright listen. Went too far, whatever. Takin’ the website down, we’re cool right? Everything goes back to normal.
977.BW:Mmm hmm.
978.DC:I, I, I have no resentment if, if he’d just stop at any point, {G*****} would be going out there for visitation. I’ve never gone after him for child support. You do your thing, I’ll do my thing, that’s the joy of being not together. We don’t have to.
980.DC:We don’t have to approve, we don’t have to like. Right that’s the joy of it. You just handle things the way that you want to up there, I’ll handle them down here, we’re good. The only thing that we need to, to deal with is, is figuring out transportation for {G*****} that’s all. Um at any point along the way all he had to do was stop. That’s it. The, just stop and I wouldn’t have gone after anything. Nothing. I just don’t know why.
982.DC:He wouldn’t just won’t stop and I don’t think he ever will. So. That’s it.
983.BW:Thank you. It’s ah 15:14 hours we’ll just stop the statement now thank you.