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R. v. Patrick Fox - RCMP Interviews

Burnaby File: 2016-25379
Statement of Patrick FOX
Statement Date: 2016/06/16
Statement Time: 2103 hours

JP: Cst. Jason POTTS
PF: Patrick FOX
UM: unidentified male
UF: unidentified female
DL: Cpl. D. LEW


1.JP:This is Constable POTTS, Burnaby RCMP, regimental 57140. Um taking a statement from Patrick FOX in relation to Burnaby file 2016-uh-25379. Uh it's, it's currently 2103 hours on June 16, 2016. Mister FOX was arrested by, uh this evening, uh he was re-chartered and warned uh by Constable Heather MONTAGLIANI for um uttering threats and criminal harassment in relation to his wife Desiree CAPUANO. Uh he's currently in his cell. Constable MONTAGLIANI advised me that she read his rights from a prepared arrest script. Uh he was provided access to counsel; he indicated that he wanted to speak with a public defender. He was put on the phone with Legal Aid. And he exited the room after speaking with Legal Aid advised that he spoke with a lawyer, understood the advice and that his lawyer didn't make any mention of coming to the Burnaby Detachment. As I mentioned, Mister FOX is currently in his cell. I'll be taking my audio recorder with me to go and get him...
4.UM:Yeah. So your visual...Hey Patrick, Constable POTTS would like to talk to you.
6.JP:Hello. How are you?
7.PF:I'm fine.
8.JP:Yeah? Good. Jason. (inaudible) meet you.
9.PF:(inaudible) Oh he asked me that already.
10.JP:(inaudible) anticipate what someone's gonna say when they, when (inaudible)
11.(background conversation)
12.JP:Have a seat right in that corner there, perfect. Okay.
13.PF:Geez, it's cold in here.
16.JP:Well hopefully you kind of adjust. I kind of, I don't know I kind of, I like it cold so if you do get cold and you're really, really cold let me know and I can figure something out.
18.JP:Maybe turn the heat up or I don't know, maybe. Um so uh I said my name is Jason, I'm a police officer. I've been one for about seven years.
19.PF:Mm hmm.
20.JP:I work with the Investigative Support Team. I was kind of asked, I don't have a lot of background on your file. I know there's been a lot.
22.JP:Uh I was asked a short time ago to come and take an interview from you. So if I'm wrong in something or you know I'm misinformed, um correct me 'cause I really just learned everything and there's so much to learn.
23.PF:Mm hmm.
24.JP:Um but I was hoping to speak with you um to figure out kinda like this, this file is, I know (inaudible) a file, it's kinda all over the place.
25.PF:Mm hmm.
26.JP:Um I was kinda hoping to speak with you a little bit that and kinda share I guess how the RCMP and everybody ended up here. I mean you already kinda know, you probably know, you know obviously more about this than I do.
27.PF:Mm hmm.
28.JP:But I've just got some information that they wanted me to kind of give you.
30.JP:But before that, uh
32.JP:I told you a little bit about myself, I'd like to tell you more. Uh I have, I have a child as well as,
33.PF:Mm hmm.
34.JP:I have a child, a son.
35.PF:But do you have a psychotic ex-wife?
36.JP:I don't.
38.JP:But I do know a lot of psychotic women so I kind of uh can understand that.
39.PF:Mm hmm.
40.JP:Um but yeah, no, I'm lucky, thank god. I mean you know there's no telling where she, my wife could end up you know. I,
41.PF:Mm hmm.
42.JP:thankfully I've been pretty lucky but you know the way women are who knows. Right? So uh but I'm lucky so far. And I have a son so (inaudible) women, a woman's, uh ww-, a, a daughter so I'm hopefully uh lucky for their teenage years and all that, so.
43.PF:Mm hmm.
44.JP:Um but yeah, so I have a, I have a son, uh not as old as yours, he's only four. Um so far so good. I hh-, I do have a wife, so far so good. Uh, uh, uh yeah, I've been working in Burnaby my whole seven years. Um yeah, I mean that, well I do,
45.PF:Mm hmm.
46.JP:I like to play sports. I don't know if you like sports. Big on hockey.
48.JP:No? Okay. I know you're an IT guy which
50.JP:I'm not even gonna, like I don't know anything about. I, I struggle with it, I try and figure it out but I'm not, it takes me like forever if I try do anything with computers or anything, it takes me forever. Which is surprising 'cause I'm not that old so I Don't know what happened with me, but I don't know what that says about me. Um but I was hoping to kinda hear some more about you. Not what's just what I'm presented with in the file.
51.PF:Mm hmm.
52.JP:Like what they don't kinda tell us, like stuff you're into, stuff like that.
53.PF:Sure. First, is the recorder on?
54.JP:It is.
56.JP:So yeah, we're being audio and video recorded.
57.PF:Yeah, so I just wanted to make sure it was on.
59.PF:Um because sometimes people have a tendency to...infer what they expected or wanted to hear from something that a person said, um but if it's being recorded then it's, it's (inaudible)
60.JP:Yeah, yeah, it's audio and video recorded, so yeah.
61.PF:Right. Um second, I have an amazing caffeine withdrawal headache so if I seem a little slow or distant um that's why.
62.JP:Do you want a coffee?
63.PF:Oh, do you have coffee? I would love some.
64.JP:I think I can get you coffee. Uh I can...
65.PF:Oh that's great, I've had this all day, just ooh.
66.JP:'Cause I was looking for coffee as well. 'Cause as soon as I got in tonight I was told (inaudible) and I haven't had a chance to get a coffee.
67.PF:Right, right.
68.JP:Uh let me see about getting a coffee here.
69.PF:That would great if you could do that,
70.JP:Yeah. Yeah.
71.PF:it would help immensely.
73.PF:This morning at the detention facility um in Tacoma, at 5:30 they woke us up for breakfast, I grabbed my breakfast and then I was gonna go back to sleep. But then they wake me up and they tell me oh come on, you've got to roll up, you're being released and so I didn't have a chance to have any coffee all day.
74.JP:Okay. Yeah, I usually have like two coffees at least a day.
75.PF:Mm hmm.
78.JP:What do you take in your coffee?
79.PF:Just black.
80.JP:Just black, okay.
82.JP:Okay. Anytime someone says they take a black I feel like I'm less of a man if I say that I, I take cream and sugar.
83.PF:Well if it helps at all I used to take cream and sugar and when I was about 20, 21 I was engaged to this woman from Japan and she used to drink it black and uh she was the one that got me started drinking it black, so.
84.JP:Okay. I like to, I started...
85.PF:But I did feel like less of a man too.
86.JP:I know, well I started with like a double-double.
87.PF:Yeah, yeah.
88.JP:So I'm happy to say that I'm down to like, I'm down to two milk and one sugar, but I'd like to get it down. But anytime I try and go lower like it, I just, I don't know. I, but then I see some people get that, I've seen in front of me like order a triple-triple or something.
90.JP:Oh, I couldn't imagine. Uh let's see, large black...Okay. Okay.
91.PF:Now the documentation you have in front of you, is that the entire case file? Because if so,
92.JP:It's not.
93.PF:it's very thin.
94.JP:Yeah, it's not, no, no.
96.JP:This is just stuff for me to kind of, like I said I kinda
98.JP:got (inaudible) obviously, I had no idea who you were until last
100.JP:like two hours. So there's been so much that's happened.
101.PF:Mm hmm.
102.JP:Uh but I do interviews so they asked me if I could have a chat with you, so.
103.PF:Sure. Um and you're aware of the prior arrest. Right? From July of last year? The
104.JP:Yeah, I already read that, yes I did.
105.PF:(inaudible) when she filed and okay.
106.JP:Yeah, I read all that.
107.PF:Um and...
108.JP:I was kinda looking just to get to know you a little bit before, like the stuff I don't read. I mean like it's kinda awkward, you're sitting in your cell and then there's someone that's writing, investigating, is the lead investigator.
109.PF:Mm hmm.
110.JP:Um I only get to hear what he says and
111.PF:Mm hmm.
112.JP:what is in the file. I have some time because my only job was to take an interview from you so.
114.JP:I've got my whole shift so we could, uh if you want we can kind of, I wanna kinda get to know you other than...
115.PF:Okay. Other than the facts that's (inaudible)
116.JP:Other than what's in the information. Because you, when you see something on, I mean I don't know what's true or what's not.
118.JP:Because I, we have to take everything, any, even if you know when I talk to somebody or we see something in the news or whatever we can't actually believe it a 100 percent honestly.
119.PF:Hah, don't I know it.
120.JP:Yeah, exactly. Well don't I know it because we, the stuff they put
122.JP:I mean about us, I've had files that I, I've never been accused of doing wrong
123.PF:Uh huh.
124.JP:but I've had files that have made it and the way they spin it and the information that they use is
126.JP:completely not the case. I tell my wife, I'm like oh my gosh you wouldn't believe what they actually said today.
127.PF:Mm hmm.
128.JP:So I don't know what, I don't know, I mean I know their, what their job is, they're trying to spin, get paper, sell news but
129.PF:Right. It's ratings.
130.JP:it's frustrating. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
131.PF:Um well you know about the CBC story that was done back in February. Right?
132.JP:Yeah, I do, yeah, yeah.
133.PF:Have you seen what was aired?
134.JP:I did, yeah, (inaudible) yeah, yeah.
135.PF:Okay. Yes, that was extremely one-sided. Um
136.JP:Yeah, okay.
137.PF:and then about a week later some news agencies in the US contacted me and did an interview
139.PF:that was much more realistic um and that's when things started kind of turning when, that's when that media coverage started turning against Desiree.
141.PF:Um like at first she was getting all this positive attention,
143.PF:people supporting her and stuff. And then I started posting the proof that she was lying about all this.
146.JP:But are you, like how long have you been in, I was just trying to get to know you, like how long have you been in Canada now since you..
147.PF:Oh this time?
149.PF:Since this morning.
150.JP:Okay. But,
152.JP:sorry, before, prior to May 27th I think it is?
153.PF:Um yeah, prior to that uh May, early May 2013 is when I arrived here.
154.JP:Okay. Okay.
155.PF:Um and I've been living here steadily since then.
157.PF:Uh I go...
158.JP:Do you like it better in Canada than the States? Like what do you prefer?
159.PF:There are some things I like about both, well, okay, I would compare Vancouver to Los Angeles because the only part of Canada I'm really familiar with would be Vancouver.
161.PF:Um and the only part of the US that I really like at all would be Los Angeles.
163.PF:Um federally in the US there's little that I like anymore.
165.PF:Ever since like September 11th and the Patriot Act and REAL ID Act and so I have very little interest in ever moving back to the US.
167.PF:Um this time when I was going down it was just to visit for a few weeks and border, well border patrol claim that they had seen me like on the camera.
169.PF:Except let me tell you...
170.JP:Yeah, before we, actually like um
171.PF:Oh, okay.
172.JP:I should say before we get into that, obviously you have uh, uh rights and I, if, I was, you know I know Constable MONTAGLIANI, the, the
174.JP:female that came down, um she read you all that and kind of explained everything.
176.JP:Uh but obviously you know anything you say given to a police officer
178.JP:can be given in evidence against you
179.PF:Yes, and...
180.JP:and you don't have to say anything. You know that. Right?
183.PF:And um I'm generally pretty careful not to say something that would incriminate myself.
185.PF:Um if I do think something might be incriminating,
187.PF:then I would simply say I'm, I'm not gonna comment on that or..
188.JP:And that's, that's fair enough. I totally get it. I respect that.
189.PF:Um but uh...
190.JP:I know you're a smart guy 'cause I saw, I can tell you choose your words 'cause I actually watched a little bit of your other interview and you know trying to prep it and
191.PF:Mm hmm.
192.JP:um I could tell
194.JP:you're a pretty smart, you're a pretty smart guy. I don't know if you were, if you've been educated or went to school or it's all just by yourself, or?
195.PF:I would say mostly all by myself, yeah.
196.JP:Oh that's good.
197.PF:Um there was a period in the US from 2007 to 2011 where ICE was given me a hard time and the Phoenix Police were trying to charge me with some things um and so I had to represent myself so I had to learn a lot of, learn a lot about the law
199.PF:during that process.
201.PF:Um mostly Canadian law, um substantively it's very similar.
202.JP:Oh, is it? Okay, well I've never looked at it, so.
203.PF:Procedurally it's somewhat different though.
205.PF:Um like generally what is a crime in the US is a crime here.
206.JP:Okay, yeah, no, fair enough.
207.PF:And the defenses are generally very similar.
209.PF:Procedures are very different though.
210.JP:Yeah, I can imagine, yeah.
211.PF:But back to me, okay, so I came here in 2013 as a result of being deported.
213.PF:Um have been living here steadily or constantly since. During the time that I've been here I've been back to the US a number of times like to visit or for shopping and stuff. Um never had any problems returning to the US except for this most recent time.
214.JP:Yeah, yeah.
215.PF:Um let's see, I've never physically harmed anybody in my life.
216.JP:That's good.
217.PF:I don't believe in harming anybody other than in self defence. When it comes to self defence I believe a person should be able to or should be allowed to defend themselves by any means necessary. Um if they don't, if they're not the ones that initiate the aggression then this idea that they should use equal or lesser force, hmm, I don't think that that's really fair.
218.JP:I can understand that.
219.PF:Like if a small guy gets attacked by a big guy like you,
221.PF:what's equal or lesser force?
223.PF:But anyway, um so my career as a software engineer since I've been in Vancouver um I've worked on three projects here; two video game companies, one at EA.
224.JP:Oh cool.
225.PF:Um and then a contract with uh VTech, they make telephones and stuff.
226.JP:Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
228.JP:They do other stuff too or they used to. Right?
229.PF:Yeah, they make like toys for young kids and stuff.
230.JP:Where have I seen, maybe that's what it is.
232.JP:Yeah, I've seen that name around a lot.
233.PF:Yeah, yeah.
236.JP:Which games did you, like did you develop?
237.PF:I was uh working on a component that uh provides the network functionality or the networking interface functionality for some of the, like for a number of the sports games. Um NHL.
238.JP:Oh cool.
239.PF:What's that, uh FIFA used it too I think.
240.JP:Oh, okay.
241.PF:Um there was a new UFC game that came out
243.PF:while I was working there. That one is...
244.JP:Fight something,
246.JP:like Fight Night or something like that, yeah.
247.PF:Um and a couple other games.
248.JP:Okay, cool.
249.PF:So I wasn't working on one game specific. Uh...
250.JP:Yeah. So you were working for a couple that was with EA? Is that...
251.PF:Oh no, no, no, no.
252.JP:Oh for EA.
253.PF:Working for EA.
255.PF:But um like in programming um there's what's called libraries which are modules or components of reusable code
257.PF:um that can be used by multiple different games.
259.PF:Kind of like how, like a brick for example,
261.PF:can be used by multiple different things. Right?
264.JP:So you developed, and what, like what did they actually, I'm actually like, like what do they use that for in the game? Like how does that work?
265.PF:Um are you familiar with the games I went through?
266.JP:I am, yeah, yeah, yeah.
267.PF:Okay, great, 'cause I'm not. But um...
268.JP:I'm, I'm not a huge gamer but I do know those games.
269.PF:There's something called leaderboards.
270.JP:Okay, yeah, yeah.
271.PF:That would facilitate that. Um when sending messages to other players.
272.JP:Okay. Oh cool.
273.PF:Um...sorry, I'm trying to remember back now.
274.JP:Yeah, yeah.
275.PF:Um most of my career has not been in games and so
277.PF:some of the knowledge I gained while I was there I'd forgotten since.
279.PF:Um I remember the leaderboards though.
281.PF:There was some other major thing too. Something to do with scoring or
283.PF:I can't remember.
284.JP:That's interesting. I wouldn't, I can't even, I wouldn't even know where to start. I would look at it and be like, I would have no clue.
285.PF:Mm hmm.
286.JP:I would be completely lost. I know it would be easy, probably easy for you but...
287.PF:Well sure, I mean once you have all that prerequisite knowledge,
288.JP:Yeah, yeah.
289.PF:then yeah, but...
290.JP:Yeah, that's cool, that's interesting. Sorry, I interrupted you, I was curious what games, so.
291.PF:Oh no problem. Um let's see what I was gonna say, um...I'm trying not to duplicate information you probably already have. Like you know my ex-wife and I we separated. We got married in 2000,
293.PF:we separated in 2001, I had custody of our son. She claims that I hid him for nine years. I claimed and proved that wasn't true and that she was the one that left.
295.PF:Um that was one thing the media made a big deal about.
297.PF:Um her claim that I hid him for nine years.
298.JP:Yeah, okay.
299.PF:Um have you gone to the website yourself?
300.JP:Yeah, and I have a little bit but before we get to that um
302.JP:you made mention of, uh and I made mention of Heather MONTAGLIANI, the other police officer.
303.PF:Sure, yeah.
304.JP:Uh and I know you've dealt with these, talked about the other, how the other police agencies work and like procedurally-wise and
305.PF:Oh yeah, yeah.
306.JP:you kind of hinted that it's a little different. Um I just wanted to share 'cause I've dealt with police before too and I've been you know uh I probably, I won't even say which police, but in the Lower Mainland, not the RCMP, and they've kind of jacked me up.
307.PF:The only other one would be (inaudible)
308.JP:No, well...
309.PF:Vancouver. Right?
310.JP:No, there's other ones but uh, uh...
311.PF:Oh. Oh I thought it was just RCMP and Vancouver.
312.JP:No, well there, no there's Abbotsford, Port,
313.PF:Oh they have their own police?
314.JP:yeah, Port Moody, uh Delta, New West,
315.PF:Oh, okay.
316.JP:um who else is there? I think I'm missing one. I can't think of it.
317.PF:Yeah, good enough.
318.JP:Anyways, yeah, good enough, there's other ones. And uh I just wanna make sure that you hh-, like check on how you've been treated, you know 'cause I've been jacked up myself. Has anyone promised or threatened you, anything, like has anyone promised if you talk to Constable POTTS you'll get this, this or this? Uh or any police officer. Has there been any promises made to you?
319.PF:Nobody has made any promises to me, nobody has threatened or attempted to intimidate me and so far all of my experience with the RCMP has been that they've been exceptionally professional and courteous
321.PF:in all my interactions with them.
322.JP:And the same goes for if and when we hear back of this coffee, it's not, like I'm just getting that because you said you got a headache and
324.JP:could use one to focus. It's not like that I'm giving it to you 'cause I hope you talk to me or say something or incriminate yourself. Um but she's not responding, so maybe uh the monitor can get my partner, Heather MONTAGLIANI to check their phone, uh maybe we'll do that, and maybe they can, I just have somebody monitoring for me, so um...
325.PF:Monitoring, what do you mean?
326.JP:Someone watching the statement.
328.JP:Just we have, it's basically we have to.
329.PF:Sure, sure.
330.JP:I'll tell you the reasons, it could be many if uh, uh I know what happened in this case but if you jumped up and attacked me
331.PF:Or vice versa.
332.JP:or vice versa, exactly, yeah. Then someone could come down, so.
333.PF:Right, right, okay.
334.JP:Yeah, so we, u-, but usually it's we're dealing with really bad people here,
336.JP:obviously you're not that kinda guy but you never know. It's, so they've put in that they always want someone monitoring it so
337.PF:Of course.
338.JP:that's the reason for it. Uh okay, so um yeah so the reason why you, you know that the, that you were arrested for harassment and uttering threats and...
339.PF:You know what the charges are?
341.PF:I don't know what the factual basis of the charges are. I know that the case number is a 2016 so I'm assuming it's not based on the same allegations as the prior criminal harassment, otherwise it would just be the same case number. Right?
342.JP:Well no, it's um, because we're in, because we're 2016, because a new file was created kind of in around what happened at the border there, they create a new file.
343.PF:Mm hmm.
344.JP:Everybody, they love to create files here so.
345.PF:Oh, okay.
346.JP:Yeah, so it's just, I mean it could cover off some of the stuff that happened back in 2015.
347.PF:Right, right. Well now one thing I know is from that prior arrest until now there's been no contact between Desiree and I other than a few emails that I had sent her requesting visitation uh back in the fall and then for his winter break and for the summer break.
349.PF:There's been no responses from, to any of those with the exception of one response in December um so it, there can't possibly be any new allegations of any kind of harassment or uttering of any threats. So it would have to be based on something that occurred prior to the other arrest. But then that would lead me to think well why wasn't this brought out at prior arrest. Um really I'm thinking what happened is the RCMP heard that I was down in the US, that uh border patrol had uh arrested me or something and then decided to bring this stuff up. I, I don't think that there's any new evidence that could have possibly come up.
350.JP:Okay. Uh...
351.PF:See, I, I think what happened was, okay, before some people were saying like in the media that the reason the prosecutor didn't move forward is 'cause we're in separate countries.
353.PF:So when the RCMP heard that I was in the US that kind of removed that one issue of us being in separate countries. Um but I've been back to the US a number of times. Um and the, the fact of that one international border being there is one thing, um there's still 1700 miles between me and her. If I go 25 miles south and cross the border there's still 1700 miles between us. Um so I mean that's what I'm hypothesizing is going on here, but I don't know.
354.JP:Yeah, okay, no, fair enough. Um do you, like so the, the 27th, so uh and like I've only read kind of like (inaudible)
356.JP:What happened on that day? Can you tell me about that day? Like how it was that you were arrested?
357.PF:Sure. I was going through the border, I had the intention of going to Lynden, um catching a bus from Lynden and going to Bellingham and then to Seattle and then catching the train down at the Amtrak down to Los Angeles. Um as I got to 0 Avenue and uh I've crossed there a number of times um and I know that that statement could be potentially incriminating but it would be outside the jurisdiction of the RCMP, you'd have to tell the US authorities and obviously they don't care. Um otherwise if they were going to charge me with something criminally they would have done it this time or the other times. Um so as I got to 0 Avenue and I noticed this car that was coming along and it almost came to a complete stop as it passed me, um but then decided at the last second to continue on. And that was maybe ten feet away from where you know I just hopped across uh and continued down Double Ditch Road. So what I suspect happen was that person in that car probably called CBSA or the border patrol um and said hey, somebody just crossed the border. And then the border patrol came and intercepted me.
358.JP:How did, I, so I'm curious, like how did, how did that go? How did they act? Were they, I would imagine...
359.PF:Um they were much more polite and friendly than I would have expected.
360.JP:Yeah, I'm surprised at that too. I wouldn't think...
361.PF:Um it seems the last couple of years though um so higher authority has been probably telling them to stop being assholes at the border.
363.PF:Um because a lot of people have complained about that.
365.PF:But uh they were friendly and polite and uh they took my ID and ran the name and stuff and then they brought me down to the border patrol station, ran the fingerprints and then the old ICE file came up and all. And then they spent a bunch of time going through all of that. And first they jumped to a bunch of conclusions about that I was trying to this and trying to do that. And they reviewed the file, then they realized that well wait a second, this person has been put through all of this stuff but he's never actually done anything uh wrong like the
366.JP:Mm hmm.
367.PF:perjury and false claim of US citizenship. That happened after I was already in ICE custody and they were unable to prove that I was an alien. Um so then they charged with that stuff to try to get me to plead guilty so they could use that as a basis for my deportation.
369.PF:Like it's not like I was convicted of those first and then ICE deported me based, like arrested me and deported me based on that. I was in ICE custody for eight months before they charged with those, with
371.PF:those things.
374.JP:So yeah, sorry to get off topic, you got arrested, brought back.
375.PF:Arrested, well I got arrested by the border patrol.
377.PF:Um and they had this intelligence officer or agent or something talking with me for a while you know to determine if I was associated with any kind of terrorist group or anything.
379.PF:Um and then he did all his investigation and they concluded that there was no kind of threat and they weren't gonna press any kind of charges or anything, they were just going to reinstate the prior order of removal. From that point um I was getting along fine with it, everybody, all the officers there were all cool.
381.PF:And um the next day they transferred me to the ICE facility in Tacoma. Um now I've had bad experiences with ICE in the past as you probably know.
383.PF:Um and ICE has a tendency not to care about leaving people sitting in custody for long periods of time.
385.PF:So I was expecting probably I was gonna be in custody for six, eight, 12 uh weeks.
387.PF:Called the Canadian Consulate just after I got there. Um well I got there on a Saturday and then the Monday was a holiday so on the following Tuesday and I explained the situation to them, they started a file. Um nobody from ICE came to me. Like usually they bring this emergency travel document that I have to fill out and sign and everything.
389.PF:Um a couple weeks went by, I started getting kinda suspicious, there was no, they didn't come with the form, the consulate said they hadn't heard from them. Um but they kept saying oh no we're, we're just gonna take you to the border. And I thought well that's peculiar.
391.PF:Um then yesterday my commissary account stopped working and that kind of tipped me off that I was probably going to, oh they had these computers where you can, over in the commissary and um
393.PF:commissary is like the store in jails
394.JP:Okay, oh.
395.PF:where you can order like food and stuff.
396.JP:Yeah, okay.
397.PF:Um and as they start processing you to be released
399.PF:one of the things they do is they close your commissary account
401.PF:so when you try to log in and you see you can't get in anymore that's kind of a sign that...
402.JP:So it's good new then I guess? Yeah.
403.PF:Well, well it's, getting released isn't necessarily good news. What happens after you're released
405.PF:determines if it's good news. Um like I got released from ICE custody but now I'm here.
406.JP:Yeah, yeah, no, fair enough.
407.PF:So I still haven't had a dam cigarette but...
409.PF:Um yeah, I smoke.
410.JP:Okay, yeah, I don't smoke and I don't even...
411.PF:Nah, you wouldn't, that would be
412.JP:I don't know...
413.PF:against policies or something I'm sure.
414.JP:No, well not in here, we can't smoke in here but if I had smokes um
416.JP:or if I knew someone that smoked. I don't even know if anybody smokes.
417.PF:Probably not. (inaudible)
418.JP:At this time of night, usually during the day can find cigarettes around here somewhere but uh then I would just take you to the bay there, the, the
419.PF:Oh, wow.
420.JP:secure bay and we can smoke in there, but...
421.PF:Gosh, that would be so cool.
423.PF:But um see I'd incriminate myself for that.
424.JP:Oh no, don't, don't talk like that.
425.PF:I know, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
426.JP:It's, yeah.
427.PF:Um so then this morning uh they called me like I said just after they woke us for breakfast and said to pack up my stuff. Then they brought me to the border patrol place, the same place I believe where I, where they had brought me when they arrested me. And then these two ICE officers brought me to Peace Arch and then I was sitting in the back of the car there for a long time, thinking like okay, what are they doing there. And then the RCMP car pulled up and I thought oh I bet this has to do with me.
428.JP:Yeah, yeah.
429.PF:Of course I had no idea why but...
430.JP:Yeah, yeah.
431.PF:Um so that was from that most recent arrest up until now.
432.JP:Okay. I haven't heard anything back.
434.JP:I'm kinda looking for a coffee as well so let me just quickly make a call, phone call.
436.JP:(Cst. POTTS exits room)...
437.JP:(Cst. POTTS returns to room) Alright, I had to make two phone calls. Ever since you mentioned you got a headache, I'm getting a little bit of a headache coming on. 'Cause I usually have a coffee right when I come in but...
438.PF:May I ask,
440.PF:what time would it be?
442.PF:Okay. There's a serious case of um sensory deprivation 'cause over in the holding tank there's absolutely no indication of what time of day it might be
443.JP:Mm hmm, yeah.
444.PF:or clocks or anything.
445.JP:Yeah, yeah. 9:30, 9:30 at night, so on June 16th.
446.PF:Well the date, yeah. I mean (inaudible)
447.JP:Yeah, okay. Uh okay, so sorry, so you were brought to hh-, the uh cells here, or sorry, well eventually you transferred from the border to Burnaby.
449.JP:And have been here ever since.
450.PF:So first I was transferred from Peace Arch then to Surrey and then officer or Constable DAVIDSON came from Burnaby to Surrey and brought me from there to here.
451.JP:Okay, okay, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. So how did it all happen where, I mean I, 'cause I kind of (inaudible) she, like she's saying a lot, your, uh Desiree.
453.JP:And I've read a lot.
455.JP:And I'm not sure how much of it I believe.
456.PF:Consider, consider that every allegation that she's made publicly or to the police previously,
458.PF:I've posted proof on the website
460.PF:that it's not true.
461.JP:Yeah, so I, yeah, I've only had two hours to kinda figure it,
462.PF:Sure, sure.
463.JP:so I have nowhere near, it's been, touched any of that, so.
464.PF:Her most significant allegation was the one about it started out with that I had threatened to, or that I had said that I would shoot her if it was not illegal or if there was no threat of
466.PF:going to jail or something like that. But realized though that when you, I don't know if you've actually seen that actual statement, it was in an email. When you read it you see it's actually very innocuous, like I don't say that I would actually do that. Um and in the next paragraph I very clearly state that I would never physically harm her unless in self defence etcetera, etcetera.
467.JP:Yeah, okay.
468.PF:But that statement um didn't come up until after she, like before she filed the RCMP report bef-, in July she called the uh Sahuarita Police, her local police.
469.JP:Okay, yeah.
470.PF:And they asked her, I've got the reports and I've published them on the website as well, they asked her if I had ever threatened them, her and her fiancé.
472.PF:And they said no, that I had never threatened them.
474.PF:So she didn't get what she wanted from them. So then she went to the municipal court to get the order of protection and in there she had said that in an email I had said that um I would shoot her if it was legal or
476.PF:however she phrased it. Um she got the order of protection from there but it was just temporary because I had to be served (inaudible) And then she went to the RCMP and again, it was that kind of like vague statement that I said I would shoot her if there was no risk of going to jail.
478.PF:And the RCMP from that they arrested me and then you know they released me
480.PF:on my recognizance, the prosecutor decided not to move forward. Um from that she was saying that she wasn't getting what she wanted so she started escalating the severity of the allegation or of the claim. Um when you look at what she then said when she got on the news, um she, she went as far now as to say that, she, she phrased it as I absolutely, or no, I absolutely would kill her um if I wouldn't go to prison or something like that.
483.JP:Like it could be taken like if you didn't get caught or something. Is that what you're saying? Like...
484.PF:Right. But see, it went from simply
486.PF:shooting her to now it's I would absolutely murder her.
488.PF:Um and if you look at, if you look at her history of any kind of allegations you're going to notice that kind of a pattern. Like it'll start out with some accusation that is kind of mild and until she gets what she's trying to achieve from it she'll just keep making a harsher and harsher allegation. Um...
489.JP:Okay. What's her motivation in all, like why is she trying to do this to you?
490.PF:She started with all this retaliation in July of last year.
492.PF:And it started almost immediately after um like her current fiancé that she's living with,
494.PF:she moved in with him May or June I guess
496.PF:of last year and our son was up here until July 12th. Now I knew that she had moved in with him but since our son was up here I wasn't updating the website because you know I was spending time with him.
498.PF:Um when he went back um then I updated the website and I put uh her new fiancé's picture and some brief information about him and you know her new address and all this. And that's when she started freaking out and doing all of this. I suspect she, herself doesn't care at all really because she never did anything prior to that because she just didn't care and she even admitted herself in some of the interviews. But um I suspect this is all because of him.
499.JP:Mm hmm.
500.PF:Like he doesn't want his picture on there or something.
501.JP:Yeah, associated to her.
503.JP:Especially, yeah.
505.JP:Especially when you post everything about her and if it's true like you're saying it is um
507.JP:he probably doesn't wanna be associated to her. Right? So.
508.PF:Right. And it makes him look bad and
510.PF:as it should. I mean he's making a major life decision to be intimately involved with this woman so yeah, it shows very poor judgement on his part.
511.JP:But it'll probably be when he finds out who she is like you know maybe he'll, they won't end up to be, to be together anyway, so.
512.PF:Well if that happens, if it doesn't happen, I mean that's not my goal.
514.PF:Um my interest, if I had any interest in terminating the relationship or causing the relationship to be terminated it would only because, it would only be because of my belief that he's providing financial support to her um which is enabling her to say like uh be reactionary and you know do these kinds of things.
515.JP:Yeah, okay, yeah.
516.PF:You know as far as her intimate relationship with him or her being in love with him or something, I have absolutely no interest in that, I don't care.
517.JP:Yeah, yeah. Well you guys have been separated for so long. Right? Like it's 2000 or 2001 or something, 2002?
518.PF:We separated in 2001, yeah.
520.PF:And then the divorce dragged on forever and then
522.PF:eventually she got an annulment and I didn't even bother contesting it and...
524.PF:So because of the annulment, technically we were never legally married.
526.PF:So now I can actually say that she wasn't actually my ex-wife.
528.PF:'Cause when you get an annulment it says though the marriage occurred.
529.JP:Yeah, it never existed.
531.JP:So how was it that 'cause I know like you weren't, they kinda kicked, they kicked you out of the States.
533.JP:But if you married her how does that work if you marry her and then it got and all
535.JP:'cause you're supposed not, I know you don't get full on citizenship.
536.PF:Well but I never applied for any kind of immigration status through her.
538.PF:Um and I know that the Canadian government seems to have a pretty, they seem to have their mind pretty much made up about where I was born and who I really was originally.
540.PF:Um and that I'm a Canadian citizen. And since I want to remain living in Canada I'm not going to correct them or dispute that. I mean if that's what they wanna say, great, more power to them.
542.PF:Um I, well no, I was gonna say I know where I was born but technically I don't, none of us do.
544.PF:We only know what we're told and...
545.JP:Yeah, and absolutely.
546.PF:Um but hmm, part of the reason I never applied for immigration status through her before when we were married um was because I technically didn't need to.
547.JP:Yeah, gotcha.
548.PF:I mean I'm sure you've heard about how I claimed that I was in born in the US and all that and so.
549.JP:Yeah, Florida is it? Or...
551.JP:Yeah, okay.
552.PF:Um but we're not gonna go into all of that 'cause that's got nothing to do with this and
553.JP:Yeah, no.
554.PF:like I said I'd rather remain living in Canada right now so you know if you were to contact Canadian Immigration or whoever and say oh can you look into this person and find out um then it could possibly result in me being asked to leave Canada.
556.PF:But I'm pretty sure you probably wouldn't do that because A, it's not your jurisdiction, you probably don't care.
557.JP:You're probably right.
558.PF:And yeah, and
560.PF:but also because you probably assumed that the government's position that I'm a Canadian citizen is probably true and I'm just saying this for whatever reason, so.
561.JP:I mean yeah, it's uh, yeah, you're, you're pretty much in it now and on both,
563.JP:on both fronts. So um yeah, so she's said a lot of information. She's talking to the lead investigator tonight.
564.PF:Mm hmm.
565.JP:Um I am kind of, like I, I'm put in just my only task is to talk to you.
566.PF:Mm hmm.
567.JP:Uh so as to get inf-, and then report back to him.
569.JP:Because we don't know, she's obviously slandering your name and saying all kinds of stuff.
570.PF:Oh yes.
571.JP:And yeah, which is not surprising. I know you've been dealing with this for two years or, two years, for, through your whole life. Right?
572.PF:Well actually only since 2011 because
574.PF:she was completely absent from our lives, from uh, for a time.
575.JP:Yeah, so she says that you had custody. Right? Until 2011? Was that in the States?
576.PF:I, I had custody up 'til 2013.
578.PF:After she called ICE and I ended up getting deported.
580.PF:And she even admitted in one of the interviews that I've posted on the website, a radio interview,
582.PF:she openly admitted that she called ICE and had me deported two times solely to get custody of our son because
583.JP:Yeah, I can...
584.PF:I was trying to get supervised visitation.
585.JP:Okay. I can see, okay.
586.PF:Um it's on the website, you can just go on.
587.JP:So I can see, so I can, that, now I'm starting to understand more. Right? Because you look at everything and like well why is this guy going to all this effort. So I can understand that. Taken away from my, if I was taken away from my kid I would,
588.PF:Mm hmm.
589.JP:I don't know what I would do. So I can, uh I can understand that.
590.PF:One thing that's been a huge issue uh for my son and I. Um see previously the family court in California, that's where our family court case is.
592.PF:Uh head said that if I provide him a mobile phone she's not allowed to interfere with it. Right? Because she has a history of um getting caught recording our telephone calls.
594.PF:And so we don't, we can't speak openly and freely. Like he can't speak honestly and openly with me because he knows that she's gonna listen to them.
596.PF:So the court said that if I provide him a mobile phone she can't interfere with it so I got him a phone. Um but last summer after the criminal harassment incident um she took the phone away. Then um because of the order of protection which technically is a domestic violence issue, and then she brought that up in the family court so now the family court is showing a lot of bias toward her because the family court sees there's this order of protection so there's a domestic violence issue. And so now I'm some big, bad guy. Um so the family court even said at the most recent hearing in March, she doesn't have to give, have to give the phone back to him, um and the only way that him and I can communicate is on the landline phone which she records and listens to.
598.PF:Um the family court also said that she has complete control um or complete discretion over all visitation and over all telephone calls now.
600.PF:Um and I've done nothing other than carrying this website.
601.JP:Yeah, yeah.
602.PF:Nobody, if anybody searched through all of my history you will never find any kind of violence or aggression or any, any time there's been some like minor, little petty crimes and stuff, you know the typical stuff that people do.
603.JP:Is that in the States or?
604.PF:Well I've been in the States for pretty much my whole life except for like a few years here, there.
605.JP:Yeah, yeah.
606.PF:Um but even since I've been in Canada, let's see...I'm trying to think if there's like some illegal thing that I might have done. Of course not something that I would incriminate myself on.
607.JP:Yeah, no.
608.PF:Like I mean little, petty stuff like um...I can't even think of anything right now. No.
609.JP:Yeah. That, that's okay. Uh so was your reason for starting the website is it to kind of show her true colors? Like is it to get your son back or is it to kinda show that um exactly who she is or like, sorry.
610.PF:I would say it as the website was created after I was deported and after it became obvious in the family court that because I was deported the family court wasn't going to change the custody. Um and I realize at that point that there was a huge bias there.
612.PF:Like because you know now the court sees me as like an illegal immigrant who lied and now I've been deported. Um and so I realized that there's no way that I would get any kind of justice from the family court.
614.PF:Um even, this is even after my son testified in the court that he wanted to come back, that he didn't want to live with her. Um and then the court said oh well we don't think he's mature enough to make that decision.
616.PF:So that's when I created the website. Um the reason I created the website was one of the reasons was to publish the, the truths and the realities about the kind of person that she is
618.PF:because people like her keep getting away with doing all this terrible stuff because they keep like going to strangers. Like over time people learn about how she is from dealing with her and they go oh this is a terrible woman, I'm just not gonna deal with her.
619.JP:Yeah, yeah, no, that's fair enough.
620.PF:But the world is full of new people for her to, to (inaudible)
621.JP:Yeah, it'll never end. Right?
623.JP:It's never gonna end, so.
624.PF:Um so hopefully by creating the website it takes away some of that ability for her to keep finding new people
625.JP:I gotcha.
626.PF:to manipulate and to turn against you. Consider I put a blog post on there, talking about how back in 2012 when I was still in Los Angeles um she did essentially the same thing to me, like she was contacting people she thought were my family and she contacted my rabbi and people from the temper there and all. Um and told them that I was a fugitive and an Illegal Alien and that I had hid our son from her um and that I was abusive and did all these terrible things
628.PF:to try to turn them against me. Um I have never heard a single person make one reference to that. Nobody. Like all these people on the internet that are saying all these terrible things about me.
630.PF:Nobody has ever once said well but wait a second she did the same thing to him. But why is nobody saying she's a bad person for this.
631.JP:You're probably just better at it 'cause you're techno...
632.PF:Oh I'm definitely better.
633.JP:Yeah, 'cause you're technology, like uh you created a website and it's actually, I mean I went on there and it's pretty like...
634.PF:Oh thank you.
635.JP:Yeah, you can get around pretty easily and the colors and yeah it's pretty good. You can tell. I, I didn't know you were in IT and I'm like how did he create all this, like it's pretty...
636.PF:Well...consider though the area of IT that I'm in has
638.PF:nothing to do with web development.
640.PF:Um now I've done a little web development before on some projects I did years ago
642.PF:so I knew a little bit about it but I hadn't done it for years.
644.PF:Um so a lot of it has been some learning experience and such and...
645.JP:And do you do, and you're gonna pr-, hopefully impressed I'll know this word, SEO, search, search engine optimi-...
646.PF:Oh, no, I, I (inaudible)
647.JP:'Cause it came up, comes up, 'cause I have a friend who does that
649.JP:so that's the only reason why I know that word is to get, so it comes up on Google (inaudible)
651.JP:So it comes up pretty high isn't it on Google?
652.PF:I know very little about search engine optimization.
654.PF:Um the reason this website comes up really depending on what you search for.
656.PF:Like if you search for her name um part of the reason it comes up so high now is because of all the media attention it got back in February. Um...
657.JP:Yeah, okay. Yeah, so, so it's been mentioned more online and...
658.PF:Yeah, yeah.
659.JP:So, okay.
660.PF:Like before that you know a, a few references to it would come up.
662.PF:Um but you see the more people search for something in Google um the higher it ranks it.
663.JP:Oh I see, okay, okay.
664.PF:And before this got on the news um there was only about 30, 30 visitors to the website each day.
666.PF:Um and the first couple of days it was on the news it went up to like 30,000 visitors.
668.PF:And it was up there for a few days and as of the time when I got arrested on the 27th, it was still somewhere around I think about 200 visitors a day.
669.JP:Okay. Oh.
670.PF:Like it tapered down to about 300 and then kinda leveled out and went down a bit more. Um and it has been holding steady at about like 150 to 225
672.PF:from what was it the middle of March up until now.
673.JP:And that's every day, eh?
675.JP:That's ama-, how did, don't you wonder how...
676.(knock at door, door opens)
677.JP:Ah yes, ah, the best. Thank you so much.
678.UF:You're welcome.
679.PF:Ooh, thank you.
680.JP:(inaudible) actually it's quicker than I thought. I didn't think...okay, I think they're the same so you can (inaudible)
681.PF:Do you mind if I move closer, or?
682.JP:Yeah, no, go ahead, yeah, for sure. Are you sure? Are you tempted?
683.PF:Oh no, no, no.
684.JP:Tempted, no, no? Alright, don't make fun of me here.
685.PF:No, no.
686.JP:It's cream though, eh, alright. Cream, yeah. Uh sorry, so we're talking about two or 300 people a day.
687.PF:Yeah. Now of course consider though that's not actually two or 300 human visitors. Like some of them are WebCrawler's and such and like search engines. Um but I'd say probably less than 20 a day, 20 out of that 200 um are search engines and things. The rest are probably human visitors.
688.JP:Okay. Don't you, 'cause I, I took a course actually on uh internet investigations.
689.PF:Oh yeah.
690.JP:And it was kinda interesting actually like it opened my mind up stuff that I, we could have at our disposal just not even without like warrants or anything like
692.JP:just the way you word stuff. 'Cause you can look actually, I had lost it though, I don't remember how, you can actually, and you would be able to see it like who's visiting your site.
693.PF:Oh yeah.
694.JP:What the next site they go to.
695.PF:Yeah, yeah. Like you could programmatically put that into the page as well so you can get additional information.
697.PF:But even just by default the web server itself,
699.PF:each access and access means each time um somebody's client like their web browser loads a page and within a page there's a bunch of like images and such and...
701.PF:So every one of those things that's accessed um gets written into the log
703.PF:and the IP address and infor-, using the IP address you can determine where geographically the uh, the person was.
704.JP:Oh really?
705.PF:Or the machine anyway, not the person.
706.JP:Yeah, okay.
708.JP:So you'd be able to, so
709.PF:Like for example...
710.JP:you'd be able to go, when you go home and see that I opened it from an RCMP computer I guess.
711.PF:Yes. 199.- oh what was it? 199.212 I think it was.
712.JP:Oh that's our IP?
713.PF:Yeah. Um...
714.JP:Okay, I didn't, I don't (inaudible) well like...
715.PF:Well it's kind of like a telephone number.
717.PF:Um except that it has some additional functionality like every computer on a network
719.PF:uh has to have a unique IP address. Right?
721.PF:But you can have things called NATs or firewalls or gateways
723.PF:where you have this device here that has one IP address that's visible on all the internet
725.PF:and then all of the computers within the internal network here
727.PF:use um like a private block that isn't accessible on the internet.
729.PF:When this computer accesses the internet the packet or the message goes to the router which then changes the address so that it appears as coming from this device and then goes out to the internet.
731.PF:So that way you can have a bunch of computers but it looks like it's just one computer
732.JP:Okay, gotcha.
733.PF:And it seems from looking at my access logs
735.PF:um it seems that almost all of the RCMP computers within Canada
737.PF:all go through this like small range of 199.212 which is based in Ottawa.
738.JP:Oh really? Yeah, I could see that, yeah.
739.PF:So it's kind of, we call it...
740.JP:We call back to Ottawa when we need help and stuff and they can
741.PF:Yeah, it's...
742.JP:'cause they, cause they, 'cause then they can come on and control our computer. Is that, would that be why? Or is that, is that possible? 'Cause they do, they can take over our computer and fix stuff and...
743.PF:Honestly, doing that way, like well setting up the IP networking that way, is very nonsensical.
744.JP:Oh really?
745.PF:It doesn't make a lot of sense. Like because you have all these satellite offices across the country that are
747.PF:very geographically dispersed. And having to have all the packets go from Vancouver all the way back to Ottawa
749.PF:just to come all the way back over here, like if you're accessing a site that it's in North Vancouver.
751.PF:Instead of having the package just go from Vancouver to North Vancouver and back and forth,
753.PF:you're coming from here all the way here and then back there.
754.JP:So slower then. Right? Is that what you mean, or?
757.PF:Slower plus it creates a, a single bottleneck.
759.PF:Because there's that one point of entry where all the packets from all the RCMP stations have to go to that one machine and then go out to the internet.
761.PF:But I would assume they probably do that for control or something.
762.JP:Probably, yeah, security or something, yeah.
764.JP:I actually just bought a new computer, um I haven't had, we had a laptop before but it's probably not that, well I tried to look and I had my buddy who was helping me and we were, he's like you gotta get solid state drive or solid state,
766.JP:I don't know if that's good or?
767.PF:Yeah, yeah, 'cause they're, they're very fast, yeah.
768.JP:Yeah, so I looked for one and
769.PF:Very expensive, so.
770.JP:yeah, well they, yeah, I think I, well I spent 1500 on this one. It was a desktop. I went,
772.JP:I used to have a laptop
773.PF:Mm hmm.
774.JP:but then somebody stepped on it and I'm like we don't, 'cause I had an iPad as well and I'm like we don't need the laptop, don't need the laptop, (inaudible) always, 'cause that's what I remember when,
776.JP:when I was remember anyway having a laptop and I kinda liked it. Like you always had, it, it was always there and it seemed to be faster and the laptop seemed slow and you can't add anything to it.
778.JP:Um so I think I might, I didn't get the solid state hard drive but I think I might add that. And you can add it after the fact someone said
779.PF:Oh yeah, yeah.
780.JP:Yeah. So yeah. So I think I might do that. But I don't know, I think it's, I'm trying to remember what computer it is, it's like three, I think it has two terabytes of hard drive, 3.something gigahertz. I would image you probably have a nice, better computer than, than most but.
781.PF:Well the thing is though the type of systems that I do development for (inaudible) on,
783.PF:um aren't like PC's.
785.PF:Um they don't use the Intel processors.
787.PF:Um well, a lot of the professional development work that I do
789.PF:uh is for an operating system called Linux which runs on those types of computers.
791.PF:But like my own personal stuff at home it's all these um large Unix systems.
793.PF:They run this...
794.JP:That means...
795.PF:Oh Unix is...
796.JP:And it look, would it look like a computer if I looked at it, or even, or is it totally like...
797.PF:I was gonna say I can show you a picture on my phone but oh I don't have my phone.
800.JP:I'm actually curious, I don't even know if I have a (inaudible)
801.PF:If you have internet access.
802.JP:I don't, but...
803.PF:Oh, okay. Well next time you're at a computer
805.PF:look up um like Sun Microsystems.
806.JP:Sun Microsystems.
808.JP:Okay, I'm actually curious. Like would it look like would you stare at it and like is it totally different from a computer, or?
809.PF:Um you'd probably be able to tell it's a computer. Like it does look, their work stations
811.PF:look quite different.
813.PF:Um like I've got this one that's about that tall, about that wide and it's kind of a dark blue.
815.PF:But it's got this big, red, oval shape in front.
817.PF:Um and most of the servers that they make 'cause most of the development that I do typically is server development
819.PF:for the large server machines. Those usually um are designed to go into these cabinets
821.PF:and so they're called Rackmount.
823.PF:And they usually just look kind of plain in the front because they're not designed to be esthetic.
824.JP:Yeah, I guess so. And does that, like are those massive though? Like I've seen, I went through, 'cause I was talking about the one that you have 'cause I went through um I had a file, actually it was a news company.
825.PF:Mm hmm.
826.JP:Uh and they, what, they kinda said hey you want a quick tour, I'm like oh sure. And they took me into this room and it was just
828.JP:computers. Like or I don't know, uh not computers, but like
830.JP:tower, like black towers
832.JP:and they're shhkk- loud and (inaudible)
833.PF:Were they like six feet all or something?
835.PF:Yeah, those are cabinets and within one cabinet there's probably a bunch of servers, like individual servers.
836.JP:Okay, yeah, they said server room or something like that, yeah.
837.PF:Yeah. But Sun makes um some servers that a single server occupies the entire cabinet.
839.PF:Um and like even in the olden days um like some of the older generations um they had huge ones that were like almost 2,000 pounds. Big seven foot cabinets and it's just one huge server with like 64 processors.
840.JP:Okay, oh wow. Huh. Yeah. I would, I always said I wanted to learn more about it but I never, I don't know it's probably just not for me. Like I don't know, I can't, I can't process it. Like I get instr-, like I, I used to back in school have some more knowledge like in high school knowledge of it but now I've had to call like a buddy who is in the (inaudible) to explain to me.
841.PF:Mm hmm.
842.JP:And I don't know if I'm just getting dumber but I just can't wrap my head around it. I was like huh, click, like I don't understand it so.
843.PF:Um you had asked though if they were very big.
845.PF:Um they range in size the smallest ones would be uh, was called 1U, U stands for rack unit.
847.PF:Which refers to the height because the width and the depth of them is pretty universal. Like they're designed to fit into these cabinets. Right?
849.PF:Um a 1U server is about that high.
851.PF:So it's just like a flat thing.
853.PF:Um so they range from in size from something like that up to like those full cabinets that...
854.JP:Yeah, and they had a lot of those. They had like, like I don't know, it was a full room full.
855.PF:Yeah, that's cool.
856.JP:Yeah, it was. You're thinking about it right now like oh that's cool, yeah.
857.PF:Oh yeah.
859.PF:I love those big, powerful systems. Like um back in Los Angeles um
861.PF:typically I would rent a apartment that would have one room more than what I actually need, like a three bedroom if it was just me and my son
863.PF:'cause the third room would be like a server room or a computer room.
864.JP:How cool, wow.
865.PF:And um I used to at some points like I would have some of those big cabinets with,
867.PF:with those kinds of machines.
868.JP:Do you have that now, or?
869.PF:No, not up here.
871.PF:Um the apartment here it was never intended to be a long term or permanent thing.
873.PF:Um I rented it because it was just up the street from EA
875.PF:so I would just walk to work 'cause when I first moved here.
876.JP:Yeah, I gotcha.
877.PF:And I wanted something cheap and close to work, um and I expected that when {G*****}, my son, came up here we would
879.PF:go look for an apartment together so you know I would include him in the decision of where we would live.
881.PF:Um but things started dragging on and then it started looking like he wasn't going to be able to come up here and then of course I started realizing that well when he turns 16 we can go to Ontario um and that's been a big issue for her too. When she finally realized that legally there's nothing anybody can do once he turns 16 and he steps foot into Ontario because if the Canadian government insists that I'm a Canadian citizen
883.PF:that means that he also is a Canadian citizen.
884.JP:Yes, yeah.
885.PF:And the age to live on your own in Ontario is 16.
887.PF:So being a Canadian citizen they can't force him to return to the US. So that's our plan at this point.
888.JP:Gotcha. Yeah, I guess you can make do 'til, in that place for now anyways.
889.PF:Well, oh yeah.
890.JP:Is it, is it, are you able to fit your computers in there though or is it only a one bedroom-er?
891.PF:Well it's a two bedroom.
892.JP:Oh, okay.
893.PF:Um and like the servers they tend to be kind of loud
895.PF:because they have a lot of fans to blow the heat. So usually when he's not here I just put the servers in his room and keep the door closed.
896.JP:Oh, okay, gotcha, okay.
897.PF:Um but like there's some challenges or difficulties with the plan of him coming up here when he turns 16.
899.PF:Remember I said she took his phone. Right?
901.PF:So we can't, we can't discuss it or anything.
903.PF:Um and like I've told him..
904.JP:Write it down though, can't you email him?
905.PF:There's no guarantee that she's not monitoring that too.
907.PF:Um but I've told him that like 'cause I've provided him a credit card and a debit card and each week I put a 125 dollars into his bank account. Right? So um...
908.JP:Oh that's nice of you.
909.PF:Oh thanks. Well you know the credit card is for support, like anything related to clothing or medical care or school.
911.PF:The debit card and the bank account that's completely his own money.
912.JP:Oh that's good.
913.PF:Um and for a long time Desiree was trying to claim that I've been providing no financial support
915.PF:since he's been there. And I keep saying but no that's not true, he's got a credit card with like a 6,000 dollar limit, there's no reason that he can't use it to buy clothes. And she's going well he doesn't pay for any clothes and he doesn't pay for any medical care. I mean what...
917.PF:She doesn't claim that anymore though 'cause...
918.JP:Yeah, it's just, well the facts are the facts if you're giving him a credit card so.
919.PF:Mm hmm.
921.PF:Um and so, oh yeah, so like I told him though that he could go to a 7-Eleven and just get one of those mobile phones, like just a cheap one. right?
922.JP:Pay as you go? Yeah, yeah.
923.PF:Yeah. And I told him put it on the credit card, I don't expect you to pay for it and that way you can actually call me and she won't know and she won't be able to record it. Um but he hasn't done that yet and he hasn't, he hasn't said why. Because she's monitoring the calls. And so I suspect she's probably taken away the debit card and the credit card um because I, I have access to his bank account
925.PF:so I can see like they, what he's using them for. And the past few months or so um it's, he's pretty much only been using it for occasionally taking out cash which I'm guessing he probably asks her can I take out some cash and so she goes to the bank with him. And uh either PayPal or um Xbox charges.
926.JP:Oh yeah, yeah.
927.PF:Which he doesn't need the actual card for because they're already linked with the account. So I'm pretty sure she took those away from him which then makes it a lot more difficult for him to get away from her when he turns 16 because he would somehow have to like get to, if he gets to the airport he would need to be able to buy the plane ticket and all.
928.JP:Yeah, yeah.
929.PF:Um he could buy it online or I could buy it for him.
931.PF:Except he would need to ask me, like let me know that I need to buy it but he can't, he can't speak openly with me.
933.PF:So we have this situation where she's tried to create so many complications and difficulties. Like she hasn't explicitly um forced me out of his life completely, which she can, she can simply just not let him talk on the phone anymore.
935.PF:But um, she allows us to talk on the phone, but only if she's able to listen to it. So we can't really talk with him,
937.PF:we can make small talk, that's it. I can't give him parental advice, I can't give him guidance,
939.PF:he can't talk to me about personal things.
940.JP:Does he still wanna come up though or? Or?
941.PF:Yes he's never, he's never indicated that there was any change in what he wanted from that.
943.PF:Um, I don't bother asking him if that's still what he wants because of course he's not gonna, he's not gonna be able to answer because
944.JP:Yeah in front of her.
945.PF:Well, see, e-, even if he says something that isn't like, that, something that wouldn't be wrong or a basis for punishing a child like saying his opinion.
947.PF:Um, if it's something that upsets her, then she'll take it out on him, she'll make him feel guilty or she'll like, treat him poorly or something. Um ...
948.JP:What does he think of the website?
949.PF:I've talked to him about that too. And I've also
950.JP:(Inaudible) imagine.
951.PF:been very clearly with him that if anything ever happens, if any kids at school or anything ever, seem to be like aware of it,
953.PF:um and is causing you any complications at all, don't hesitate to tell me because there's no way that I would let the website uh cause you, meaning him, any kind of difficulty or complication.
955.PF:And he said well nobody's ever said anything to me about it and, um ...
956.JP:That's good.
957.PF:And as for his opinion
959.PF:of the website. The last time that we spoke, that we were able to speak openly and freely, um which was when he was here during his summer break last year. And we were talking about it and his opinion at that point was, why should I care what you say about her on the internet?
962.JP:Fair enough.
963.PF:See everybody has this, well not everybody, most people, from the comments you see on the internet uh, they have this mentality that there's an inherent bond between a mother and a child like there's some kind of automatic thing
965.PF:that a child automatically loves a mother. Now I come from an environment where um, hm, how can I say this? Like a lot of times when people say something like this, it sounds like the other person should say oh I'm sorry to hear that, but it's not like that at all.
967.PF:Um, my parents were crappy, had a crappy childhood. So I know that there's a lot of crappy parents out there and,
969.PF:I have no respect or love or concern at all for my parents. Like when I left home at 14 and then moved on with my life, I never had any interest in keeping in touch with them.
971.PF:Um, but then again, you know I was molested and abused and stuff and,
973.PF:grew up on the street so, it's a little more harsh than what he's going through I think.
974.JP:Oh I, I know everyone says that but, I am sorry to hear that
976.JP:'cause that's the stuff I deal with usually. So, and I know that obviously, don't have to tell me twice that there's crappy parents 'cause,
978.JP:the stuff that we deal with and see, like that's mainly what I deal with. It's ...
979.PF:Right, right.
980.JP:children being molested and, yeah.
981.PF:And, so when you have a child that has a parent, like a mother who left when he was a year and a half
983.PF:and she was out of his life for the whole time and then she forces herself back into his life when he's 11, takes him by force to another state, tries to get custody, tries to get a court order preventing him from having any telephone contact with the father. Then the court orders her to return him to the father. And then she still doesn't get her way so then she has the father deported.
985.PF:Um, I, I refuse to believe that any child is going to have much respect or love for that kind of a parent.
986.JP:Yeah. Well
987.PF:Because he didn't want to be there in the first place
989.PF:and she's done nothing but cause problems since she's been here.
990.JP:And he's probably a smart, like a smart kid too right (inaudible)
991.PF:I hope so, I think so.
992.JP:And he's getting older now, he's gonna start seeing right, the way that things are and,
993.PF:Oh yeah. Yeah he's, he's
994.JP:how she's acting, exactly, like he's not blind so. So. Yeah no that's, that's rough. I mean hey, I was gonna say, good for, like, all aside, good for you like you've turned, it's good to see somebody like 'cause I deal with, I'm dealing with these kids now I,
996.JP:it's good to see and I always tell them, this is something I always tell. When we get to the end of the file. Look me up in like, 10 years when they're at their lowest of their lows.
998.JP:Look me up and, you've, you know I know you're gonna make it to something successful one day and come and find me 'cause I wanna hear about it and see
1000.JP:and I really, and I hundred percent mean it. 'Cause I see these, these kids a lot of them like, 10 to 14 like that.
1002.JP:And I hope that one day they're gonna, this'll be a great experience for them and that they'll be successful so good for you. 'Cause not a lot
1003.PF:Oh thank you.
1004.JP:Not a lot of people turn out that way, that you can,
1006.JP:that you've had that rough childhood and now you've got your own kid. Uh good morals and got a good job so.
1008.JP:It's admirable.
1009.PF:Thank you. Yes.
1011.PF:Um, most of the time, like because of the kind of work that I do. Obviously I don't tell anybody per-, that I have a professional relationship with.
1013.PF:About any of that, everybody thinks I just had a typical middle class uh,
1015.PF:background. But um, like even on my resume I say I went to U.B.C.
1017.PF:Um and the reason I chose U.B.C. was because since I'm in Vancouver, I expected one thing people would ask a lot is well why would you come from the U.S. to Vancouver? 'Cause not a lot of Americans come up here. Um, and so I put U.B.C. on my resume so that way I could say oh well I went to school here.
1019.PF:And I liked it and so I, that's why I came back here.
1021.PF:But uh, I forget where I was going with that.
1022.JP:Um, I was telling you, I don't know, we were talking about uh,
1023.PF:Oh, oh yeah.
1025.PF:About um, I think it's very rare that people grow up in a kind of crummy environment and then go on to do well because typically their entire childhood was that crummy environment.
1027.PF:And I think the difference in my case was there was a few years of my childhood that I spent with my grandparents.
1028.JP:Mm-hmm. Okay.
1029.PF:Which was away from like all the drugs and the
1031.PF:abuse and everything. So, then when I was 10 I went back with my parents again or with my mother.
1033.PF:Um but at that point I had seen that there was more to life, like it didn't have to be that way.
1034.JP:Oh okay gotcha.
1035.PF:Except at the same time, my other siblings, they also had that same opportunity but they all, well they all, except for one of them, ended up crappy and,
1036.JP:Oh (inaudible).
1037.PF:on drugs and stuff and yeah.
1038.JP:And they're still in the States then or? Or are they in Canada?
1039.PF:I decline to comment on that.
1040.JP:That's ...
1042.JP:... fine. I was only curious,
1044.JP:I'm not uh trying to ...
1045.PF:I, I can tell you they're all still where they grew up. The city,
1047.PF:they grew up in.
1048.JP:That's fair enough, I wasn't,
1050.JP:I'm just curious (inaudible). Like, I, I'm just, I always find it interesting I know 'cause it, in the States if you commit a crime down there you do serious time so.
1051.PF:Yeah and a felony down there sticks with you your whole life.
1055.PF:Depending on the state. Like,
1057.PF:Arizona it's very, Arizona is a very law and order states. If you have a, a felony there, oh it's, your life is very difficult
1059.PF:after that. California is much more forgiving.
1060.JP:Yeah. It, and that's like with everything with California, they're more,
1062.JP:they're much more like Canada.
1064.JP:Than, than the rest of the ... I have, have a buddy in the army, Canadian military that married a California girl. Never been to California, he's like, dude they're just like, they're really similar to Canada, they're much more ...
1066.JP:uh progressive like they're just a lot, you know. Yeah you should go, I've never been, I've been to Ca-, I've been to California now but at the time I hadn't and uh,
1068.JP:Yeah it was uh, yeah it was ni-, it's nice down there, I really like California,
1070.JP:I would totally live there. It's probably the only place I would live. California or, uh like Oregon. Probably only 'cause I know. That's 'cause uh, you know, peace of mind 'cause I've been there and,
1071.PF:Yeah, yeah.
1072.JP:that's about it but. Or Hawaii. I love, that's my dream but.
1073.PF:Oh yes. I've never been there.
1074.JP:Aw. I still, every time I talk about Hawaii I, I just (inaudible) had amazing time there but. I, I'd come back and like, we're all ss-, we're all dumb here, what are we doing, we should be in Ca-, in Hawaii. It was beautiful, perfect every day like, I gotta figure out a way to retire there. 'Cause it was amazing. It's beautif-, perfect weather, doesn't get too hot, like it's just gorgeous.
1076.JP:I definitely recommend it.
1078.JP:It's expensive though, I mean everybody seems to be prodding for money anywhere you go.
1079.PF:Oh yeah.
1080.JP:(Inaudible) yeah.
1081.PF:Yeah. Hm.
1083.PF:Um, so I think that gives you a pretty good idea of why I hate Desiree with respect to the complications that she's been causing with the child custody and all. But there's still more to it than just that. Um there's the issues of, like my life in the U.S.
1085.PF:Now let's put aside any questions of whether I'm a U.S. citizen or a Canadian citizen for a moment. The fact was, I was living in the U.S. for most of my life. Regardless of which country I'm a citizen of.
1087.PF:The government didn't care. Generally they don't care about people like illegals. For the sake of argument, I'm not saying I was an illegal.
1089.PF:Um, as long as you're not getting in any kind of trouble with the law right? So even after I got out of ICE custody, and then I went back to Los Angeles, um, nobody cared that I was there until she had contacted them and filed these false reports and stuff. And I say they were false because, she was alleging that I was a fugitive, that I had previously been deported and that I had re-entered the U.S. illegally. Now, even if we assume that I am a Canadian citizen, um, those three points would still be false. I wasn't a fugitive.
1091.PF:Um I hadn't previously been deported 'cause ICE hadn't actually deported me in 2011, they just brought me to the border and then left me there.
1093.PF:Um not like today where they brought me to the border but actually brought me across and gave me to C, CBSA.
1095.PF:And, whatever the third one was. Um, so, she has deliberately created a situation where, like even though I'm not interested in returning to the U.S. to live at this point. Um, she's made it so that I can't even go back and visit friends or family that live in Los Angeles. Um, I can't uh attend any of our son's school functions, like when he graduates and stuff.
1097.PF:When he's got some major thing going on. Um, oh what else can I not do? Oh and then with that restraining order. Well of course, the restraining order only affects me if I'm in the U.S.
1099.PF:Um, so that's not really a huge deal and admittedly most of the reason I've been challenging the restraining order is just to be a pain in her ass.
1101.PF:Because really, like from a legal perspective. It means nothing since I'm in Canada.
1102.JP:Yeah. No I gotcha.
1103.PF:Um, unless of course, if I either intended at some point to return to the U.S. legally. Um, or if I expected that at some point I was going to be required to return to the U.S. Like if at some point the Canadian Government did look into and go, well wait a second there was a person named Ricky RIESS that was born on November 24th, 1973 in Sudbury, Ontario. The problem though is that there's nothing that connects this physical human being with this person. Which is, that's kind of the whole point that I've been saying to people all along is yes, there was this person that was born there. I did assume that person's identify in the U.S. back in 1993. Um, and I've been very open about that with ICE (inaudible). Um, but there's never been any evidence that says that I am this person.
1105.PF:But that's
1107.PF:another issue for ...
1108.JP:Yeah like what, I know she fears that you're gonna, like, I think her
1110.JP:ultimate fear is that you're gonna kill her.
1111.PF:Ah, ah you say, you say
1112.JP:Or shoot her right like,
1113.PF:You say
1114.JP:'Cause she makes mention of firearms so.
1115.PF:Yes, yes, but wait you say she fears. Um, now are you saying she claims to fear?
1116.JP:She claims.
1117.PF:Oh okay.
1118.JP:Yeah she claims to fear.
1119.PF:Because I was gonna say if you listen to the radio interview that she did.
1121.PF:That I put on the website. That radio interview was done the day after the CBC story aired.
1123.PF:And you listen how in there there's no fear in her voice, she's laughing and joking about the stuff on the website. She's joking about how her co-workers would come to her and say oh you've got some, uh what was the word she used? I can't remember. Um, but telling her that she's very brave and courageous for putting up this website and ...
1125.PF:Um, there's, there's no fear there, she doesn't
1126.JP:She makes mention of firearms so that's
1127.PF:Oh yeah.
1129.PF:Well she knows that um, throughout my entire life I've always been um, in the U.S. we would call it a second amendment enthusiast of firearms,
1130.JP:Yeah, yeah.
1131.PF:an enthusiast. Um, and it's always been one of my major or significant uh hobbies, pastimes. Um, in the U.S., you're allowed to use firearms for self-defense as well and so at home I would always have, you know
1133.PF:one or two around um for home defense. Um here in Canada because the laws are different, I would never use it for defense. It would be impractical anyway because since it has to have a trigger lock plus be in a locked container. By the time you would get through all these locks plus load a magazine, well you'd (inaudible)
1135.PF:dead so.
1136.JP:Need like a safe room, to give you some time.
1139.PF:Um, now since she knows that that is one of my favorite hobbies or pastimes or recreations, and, that's one of the things that {G*****} and I do a lot when he comes up here is, you know it's as a father and son we bond, we go to the shooting range
1141.PF:and all and I got him this uh rifle 'cause he likes the old World War 2 stuff. Um, so she brings that up because she's trying to get that taken away. She's trying to make it so that I won't have that. Because, from her perspective and this is speculation of course
1143.PF:I realize but from her perspective she's thinking, what can she do to, to harm me or to adversely affect me. Um, she's got that. She already got me deported from the U.S. so I mean. And she's done a few things that kind of give the impression that she might be trying to see if she could get me deported from Canada now too.
1145.PF:Um, I think I mentioned it in one of the blog posts about how, whenever she talks with anyone in the U.S. like law enforcement or uh reporters, she always makes sure to mention that I was deported from the U.S. And that I was an illegal alien. Whenever she speaks with the Canadian journalists or law enforcement, she might mention that but she always makes sure to provide a copy of that Florida birth certificate.
1146.JP:Mm-hmm, okay.
1147.PF:Um which kind of raises the question of well, is this person even a Canadian citizen?
1149.PF:Kind of like she's trying to drop this hint that, you know, he's not supposed to be here. Um, so I think that's the only reason she brings up the firearms. Um, consider if you will, prior to when she called the RCMP or when she filed for the restraining order, she has never once expressed any concern about the firearms. Not in the family court or like not any of the whole time that I was living in the U.S. Like when her and I were living together in California. Never expressed a concern until she moved in with her current boyfriend and he showed up on the website.
1151.PF:Then all of a sudden firearms became a big deal.
1152.JP:So because she said like well, um, I shouldn't say she said. But I think the fear is like,
1154.JP:is that you're, were gonna take the firearms down across the border. Obviously we know you weren't caught with the firearms or else
1156.JP:that would be a different story (inaudible)
1157.PF:Yes that would be very illegal.
1158.JP:Yes. Well
1159.PF:And like I keep saying, um I won't do anything illegal.
1160.JP:Yeah, okay. Um, so are they still back at your house then?
1161.PF:Well they're in storage because I'm in the process of moving.
1162.JP:Okay. They're in storage, at like one of those private storage facilities or?
1164.JP:Okay. Whereabouts?
1165.PF:Can we come back to that in a bit?
1168.JP:Because yeah, you obviously know you have to keep that updated right with the CFRO so where the firearms are.
1169.PF:Yes. Um, what I read on the RCMP website was when you move, you have 30 days, uh from the time that you move. But it doesn't, doesn't clarify from the time you move out of one place or the time you move into the new place, it just says 30 days from the date that you move.
1170.JP:Okay. We can come back to that, that's fine.
1173.PF:Um, the reason that I wanted to come back to the is I kinda wanna get feel for where we're going with this. If my PAL is gonna be revoked, if I have to surrender them, fine, I accept that because I'm ...
1174.JP:I honestly, like I'm, I, I, you don't have to, like I, like I said
1176.JP:I don't believe everything everyone tells me, I always ...
1178.JP:You don't have to believe everything I'm saying. I literally started my shift at 7 p.m. tonight.
1180.JP:Uh I'm just reporting back to the lead investigators.
1181.PF:No, no, yeah no problem.
1182.JP:I just kind of um, go back to him with (inaudible) so.
1183.PF:Yeah, yeah.
1184.JP:I was given a bunch of information, I don't know how much of it is true. I, I'm very skeptical, I don't believe everything I, I read and,
1186.JP:hear and all that so, I'm just gonna go back with him with what I know so (inaudible)
1188.JP:decides on what happens so. Uh so I don't know what's gonna happen with your firearms licence or ...
1189.PF:Right, right.
1190.JP:Or, or what have you so.
1191.PF:Um, let me ask you if I can. I don't know if you're allowed to tell me this but I couldn't imagine you wouldn't be able to. Um, Obviously she had contacted the RCMP again recently. Um, because you had mentioned that she was being interviewed. Um and I'm sure you guys didn't like, re-open this investigation on your own. Um, are you able to tell me when that contact, or like when this investigation started again and ...
1192.JP:It was sometime after, it, it, I, I think it, it was, it was the U.S. border authorities called because,
1194.JP:they had a Canadian citizen. A Canadian citizen
1196.JP:w-, ah,
1198.JP:in custody. Uh and that's how it kind of, the, that's where it all started.
1199.PF:I see.
1200.JP:I don't know the connection between, between the, because it wasn't really something that I thought I would look into,
1202.JP:'cause I only have short period of time. Um I don't know how the connection came from where it all turned against the
1204.JP:Obviously I would imagine, because they, there was fear that you were going to Arizona.
1205.PF:The uh, intelligence investigator that I was speaking with.
1207.PF:Didn't bring that up, like he didn't mention that he had a bit of a concern because there was that one blog post that talks about the logistics if um, I have that one blog post that says about how ridiculous her allegation or her,
1209.PF:claim is because of all the logistics that would be involved in going to Arizona, shooting her and actually getting away with it.
1211.PF:Um, and so he said well, what you did here today, like crossing the border like this, kind of almost sounds like what you were saying in there. But then I pointed out to him that the, what I said in that post was the reason I would have to sneak into the U.S. is because I would have a firearm with me.
1213.PF:And I couldn't go through customs with that, I'd have to declare it through customs and,
1215.PF:even if they allowed me to go with a firearm there'd be a record of me bringing the firearm in, which would make it hard to get away with.
1217.PF:Um, but when I crossed the border, I didn't have any firearm with me.
1219.PF:But also that whole post was about the logistics that would be involved in getting away with it, not the logistics in actually doing it.
1221.PF:Like going to Arizona and shooting her would be very simple. Um, and I wouldn't have to use one of my guns from here, I mean I could easily just go down to the U.S. buy one on the black market. But the thing is, it would be very difficult to get away with something like that. Um, because you'd have to be very careful not to leave any kind of record or paper trail. And I'd have to rent a car because she lives 20 miles outside of Tucson.
1223.PF:Um, so there'd be a record there. Um, and then, there's just the possibility like, if you got caught in Arizona they have the death penalty. If I did that and, if I shot her now first of course, we have to clarify shooting someone and killing someone are not the same thing.
1225.PF:If you shoot someone in the foot they won't necessarily die. But we're going to assume the intent would be to kill the person.
1227.PF:Um, because what's the point in shooting her in the foot? I mean, 'cause then she would just tell the police and they'd come and arrest me.
1229.PF:Um, if I was to go there and murder her, it, it's completely unfathomable that I'd be able to get away with that. Um, I have my mobile with me, like when I crossed I had my mobile phone and so there'd be GPS records of where the phone was located. Um, there would be, well I had my credit cards, so obviously I, and I only had 340 dollars in cash on me. So obviously I was intending to use the credit cards, I couldn't make it all the way down there, with that. So, um, I think that that, like what he was suggesting with that I don't think that that, (inaudible).
1230.JP:So then what was your reason for going down?
1231.PF:Just to go visit in Los Angeles. I hadn't been back to Los Angeles in, what about three years.
1233.PF:Um, I do have friends, like that I've had for like a long, long time.
1235.PF:Um, that I haven't been able to see for three years. And I was expecting that soon I was gonna be moving to Ontario like I said, so.
1237.PF:I thought well since I'm not working on a project right now I have the time off. So now would be a good time to go down there and spend a few weeks there, come back and then move to Toronto.
1239.PF:And that was it. Um, yeah.
1240.JP:Did you let them know that you were comin' down to see them? In California, your friends?
1241.PF:Oh yes.
1245.PF:I mean I'm sure you've had a look at the text messages in my phone right?
1246.JP:Uh I haven't.
1247.PF:Oh, okay. I know border patrol did. Um,
1249.PF:they asked me if I would give them the code and they said oh if you don't give us the code under this statute, I can't remember which one, we can hold the phone long enough to break into it,
1251.PF:and it could be three months before you get your phone back. And I wasn't hiding anything so.
1253.PF:I told them yeah, go ahead.
1255.PF:Um, but there's text messages in there with my friend in Los Angeles.
1256.JP:Okay. That you were gonna go see him and ...
1258.JP:And whatnot, okay. Um, and, like where were you gonna stay then? At his place?
1259.PF:At her place.
1260.JP:Oh at her place, okay.
1262.JP:Is it more than a friend or just a friend?
1263.PF:No, no, no, no,
1265.PF:just, just a friend. It's the same friend that was taking care of {G*****} while I was in custody in the U.S.
1266.JP:Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah because obviously I mean, uh have you ever tried to cross the border before like that?
1267.PF:Oh yes many times.
1269.PF:Oh yeah.
1270.JP:And gotten away with it?
1271.PF:Oh yeah.
1274.JP:Mm, (inaudible).
1275.PF:Um this
1276.JP:I always think it, 'cause I thought, so, so (inaudible). I thought you got nabbed because they have, like a, I don't know exactly what they have but I know they have technology down there to track or something.
1277.PF:Yeah I think that's more as a uh, deterrent. Honestly, like they tried to convince me that that's how they saw me,
1279.PF:that with the cameras there. But um, I'm pretty sure, like I said I think it was that car that was driving by.
1281.PF:'Cause it seemed very peculiar that he almost came to a complete stop but then decided to continue on. Um, and having motion detectors out there wouldn't be very effective. Because any time a car drives by or an animal
1282.JP:Animal (inaudible).
1283.PF:or something I mean, um, so I think that's what it was, it was just very unfortunate.
1285.PF:That at that precise moment that car just happened to drive by. If I was like 30 seconds sooner or later.
1286.JP:Were you like literally walking across the border when that car walked by or?
1287.PF:Well no I was, okay you know there's Zero Avenue.
1288.JP:Yeah. Zero Avenue and what? 'Cause I do know Zero Avenue pretty well.
1289.PF:Uh 272nd, that's where the border crossing is.
1290.JP:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
1291.PF:Or no 272nd is that one small street.
1292.JP:I grew up there.
1293.PF:And just,
1294.JP:In Aldergrove.
1295.PF:Oh yeah, yeah,
1297.PF:exactly. Um, just west of that there's that street that, it's the main street that turns into Guide Meridian. On, in the U.S. where there's the border crossing.
1298.JP:Uh just west of 272nd you said?
1299.PF:Yeah. The, the major street that has the border crossing.
1300.JP:Okay, yeah uh so are we talking, so I know it gets kinda weird there, so uh, you go, and then there's that huge hill. Right?
1302.JP:That comes up onto 272nd and then you (inaudible), um, in my head I can picture it so easily but there's a big hill that, and then if you were gonna go west of, west of the border you'd have to, if you're gonna take, drive it.
1304.JP:You would have to go down a big hill and then make, like, you go down 272nd, make a big left and then you go down Zero Avenue which is flat there.
1305.PF:Yeah, yeah.
1306.JP:So down in that area.
1307.PF:Yeah so
1308.JP:West of 272nd I guess.
1309.PF:Well at exactly 272nd and Zero Avenue.
1311.PF:Like I walked down 272nd and then just as I got to Zero Avenue.
1313.PF:That's where the car came along. And it almost stopped then kept going. And, you know how there's, okay, okay so we're facing
1314.JP:Oh I'm thinkin' 26-, never mind,
1315.PF:Facing south.
1316.JP:I was confusing 264th.
1317.PF:Oh okay.
1318.JP:'Cause 264th is actually where the, uh, border is.
1319.PF:Yeah that's where they have the uh ...
1320.JP:Sorry let me reset, 272nd, not the big hill, no I was thinkin' 264th, you know where I'm talk?
1321.PF:Yeah, yeah.
1322.JP:There's that big hill.
1323.PF:Yeah that's the one that turns into Guide Meridian.
1325.PF:Now I've (inaudible) actually gone down,
1327.PF:that street
1329.PF:but uh I know 264th turns into Guide Meridian.
1330.JP:At 272nd, okay. Okay I know, yeah.
1331.PF:It's at the next
1332.JP:Pretty rural there. Yeah.
1333.PF:street, oh yeah it's, it's all rural.
1335.PF:Um, but when you get to Zero Avenue there and then, so that we're from the same perspective.
1337.PF:Um, so there's Zero Avenue and probably about 30 feet over there.
1339.PF:There's, like you know how there's a ditch,
1340.JP:Yeah, yeah.
1341.PF:separating Zero Avenue and Boundary Road. But over about 30 feet the ditch is filled in, there's a manhole um, that goes down to the sewer or something.
1343.PF:And there's just like a little barrier thing that's about yay high. So you just go over to there and you just step over the barrier like that.
1345.PF:And then double ditch road on the U.S. side. Walk straight down to Linden.
1347.PF:And so you just, I started walking down double ditch road.
1349.PF:Now first it's open and there's fields there but then as you get, I don't know, 2, 300 feet down, there's trees on the sides. And so as I was walking down and it was open, um, there's a lot of visibility. So I thought well once I get to where those trees are though then I'll, you know be covered by the trees and so nobody'll see me.
1351.PF:I got to where the trees were and just after that the border patrol truck came up and ...
1352.JP:Did they come with lights and sirens or?
1353.PF:Oh no, no, no.
1354.JP:No, no, oh that's good.
1355.PF:No and the first one was this uh, this woman and she was very nice, very friendly. And she said hey uh, did you just jump the border over there? And I went um, yeah.
1356.JP:Well at least you admit it.
1357.PF:Well I mean,
1359.PF:you know what. If, if you're caught and, you know there's no point in trying to deny it at that point.
1360.JP:Did you ever think of making a run for it?
1361.PF:Oh no. Never.
1363.PF:Well certainly not back anyway.
1364.JP:Yeah you were quite a ways in or?
1365.PF:I, I would guess it was about 3, 400 feet maybe.
1367.PF:And then two other border patrol trucks pulled up behind her.
1368.JP:Oh okay.
1369.PF:Yeah. But I mean, I'm more the type that would think something through as much as possible ahead of time and
1371.PF:try to think what kinds of questions might they ask and how should I respond to them. Not how should I lie to them,
1373.PF:but just, you know. Um, than the type that would not plan and just run.
1374.JP:Okay. I gotcha. Hm. When you were sitting in your cell did you think oh I should maybe (inaudible) for a run for it or no?
1375.PF:Oh no, no.
1376.JP:No, oh okay.
1377.PF:Never, that, that, I mean that would have been futile,
1379.PF:first of all they're in trucks. Um, and they're coming from behind.
1381.PF:And I'd have to (inaudible) past them.
1382.JP:I'm sure one of them, maybe one of them had a dog too, you never know with them.
1383.PF:I didn't see any dog.
1385.PF:But of course they had guns.
1386.JP:Yeah. I don't know if they would, I don't think they would shoot you though, (inaudible) I don't know.
1387.PF:Tasers too.
1388.JP:Tasers they'd probably do that.
1390.JP:They can get (inaudible) yeah, they'd probably taser yeah. Um, okay. Yeah um, I think that
1391.PF:Well thank you for the coffee by the way, the headache is gone, I feel much better.
1392.JP:Yeah, actually mine too. So that's good. Um, yeah so, the, that was her fear I think and the fear of, um, the initial investigator was that you were tryin' to take a firearm down there to go and kill.
1393.PF:Sure. Sure.
1394.JP:Is the fear.
1395.PF:Um, okay I can, I can understand how they would come, by they I mean the investigator, not her.
1397.PF:I mean I would never try to understand her reasoning.
1398.JP:Yeah, yeah.
1399.PF:Um, but I can understand how they could come to that kind of an assumption. Um, but the thing is, there's such a huge, huge line between crossing the border illegally, um, or, or even between smuggling\ one or more firearms into the U.S. and crossing the border illegally, and actually killing someone. Um, as much as I hate and despise her, and as much as I hope that she gets cancer and dies slowly and painfully, um, I, hm, how can I say? I would, first I would never do something that could result in me spending the rest of my life in prison. Or could result in me being, getting the death penalty. Um, because I have to think about my son and how that's going to affect him and uh who's gonna provide for him, I mean he's got university education coming up soon and there's a lot of responsibilities there. Um, and even without taking into account all of the moral implications of it. Um, because, I mean I'm not fanatically religious.
1401.PF:But I am Jewish and one of them commandments is, you shall not commit murder. Um, so.
1403.PF:Yeah, I mean even if I was to run into her on the street. Um, I might be very tempted to get very angry and punch her. But I wouldn't because then that would be assault and then I'd be charged with something. And that would be a violent crime and I might lose my PAL as a result of it. Um, but to the point of murder or attempted murder. Absolutely not, there's no way that I would do something like that.
1404.JP:Okay. I would imagine now it's been a while like or, you're, I don't know how often you, how often do you usually update the website? This is the longest you've gone? It's been two weeks or?
1405.PF:Well, it's been,
1406.JP:Is that the first thing you're (inaudible) do when you get home?
1407.PF:No I'm not going to update it right away. I've got a tonne of emails and stuff.
1409.PF:Um, gotta go through all my emails, deal with all my professional issues first.
1411.PF:Um, updating the website isn't a high priority at this point.
1413.PF:Um, but yes certainly I'm going to continue to update it. Um ...
1414.JP:(makes sound)
1415.PF:Sorry was there more (inaudible)?
1416.JP:No, no obviously if that was, that was the first thing you were ...
1417.PF:I was trying to think is there more to the question (inaudible) as well and?
1419.PF:Um, like since I've been in custody, there's not much. Oh I did get some new police reports though. Um,
1421.PF:So I've got some recorded interviews. Um, the time when her fiancée, not the current one, the previous one, was arrested and there was the search warrant. They searched the home for the
1423.PF:AR15 (inaudible). The police didn't, or they interviewed her and I just recently while I was in custody got the uh, audio recordings of that interview.
1424.JP:Okay. They just handed it to you or? Or mailed it to your house.
1425.PF:I usual-, I usually have them send it to uh, a friend in Los Angeles.
1426.JP:Oh okay.
1427.PF:See because the Freedom of Information Act and the Privacy Act in the U.S., um ...
1428.JP:Oh so I see, U.S. police.
1429.PF:If you're not in the U.S. then they could
1431.PF:use that as a basis that, basis to say
1433.PF:well, you know we don't need to send this to you because you're not in the U.S.
1434.JP:I gotcha. How does it work for like the servers? Because how are you upload all these videos?
1435.PF:How does it work for, what do you mean?
1436.JP:No like, 'cause I always pictured for you to have a website with ser-, like um, videos that would re-, be really slow.
1438.JP:Like do you have just servers or something or big servers in your house that they can operate this stuff or?
1439.PF:Well, when I first created the site, um I had a hosting plan with GoDaddy,
1441.PF:the hosting company in the U.S.
1443.PF:Now Desiree claims that she had filed a complaint with them and they took the site down but actually what happened was she filed a complaint with them. They asked me to respond and I said well you know what, rather than dealing with responding I'm just gonna move it to my own server.
1445.PF:Um so it's not that GoDaddy took it down, I just, you know voluntarily said well you know what I'm just not gonna deal with it.
1447.PF:So then for a while, year and a half or so I was hosting it on my own server.
1449.PF:Um, in, well in my living room. Um, and then back in January, a month before the media thing happened.
1451.PF:Um, I had a gut feeling, I was like mm, maybe I should move it to a hosting provider and get it out of the living room here, mm, just mm. So then I moved it to a server in Iceland. Because, it was a very deliberate choice to use Iceland. Um, two reasons. One, they have very liberal free speech laws. And two, they have a history of not uh, giving in our bowing down to the pressures of the U.S. Government.
1453.PF:Um, and even though there's nothing illegal about the website, um my experience with the U.S. Government is, legal and illegal doesn't really mean a lot to them.
1458.JP:So. Okay. So then, uh I'm confused, I don't know how it works,
1460.JP:but, no, no I'm just trying to figure out how you would ...
1461.PF:Oh, oh, well,
1462.JP:You would connect to the, you would connect, you would go on your computer.
1463.PF:Well wait, before I answer that, let me think if there's any legal implications about this. Yes that I'm going to opt not to comment on, because there may potentially be some legal implications, that I'm not aware of.
1465.PF:Like there may be some issue of the, the prosecutor or Crown attorney, however you call them here, might be able to try to twist it around and say, well you connected to the server from a machine that's located in Canada and uploaded it to that machine, um, so we then have jurisdiction. See because since the server is outside of Canada, the Canadian Government has no authority or jurisdiction to say what is hosted on that machine. Um, and one of the arguments that I've raised over the past couple of years or so has been, the Canadian Government may have authority to compel me to do or not do something when I'm in Canada. But if I get into a boat, go out into international waters, and use a wireless device, um, the Canadian Government then has no authority over it. Or also I could go down to the border, step two feet into the U.S. then it becomes the State of Washington would have jurisdiction.
1467.PF:So, for that reason since it's kind of a gray area that the prosecutor might be able to twist around or something. It's probably better that I not make any comments about how the data gets from point A to the server.
1468.JP:Okay. From the computer that you're using to the server. Is essentially what you're talking about.
1469.PF:I can't comment on that.
1471.PF:See because,
1472.JP:Okay, fair enough.
1473.PF:It's possible, we could say that um, I'm not actually the person uploading the stuff to the server. We could say that I send the information to another person, have them upload it to the server. Um, or we could say that um, I uploaded to another server somewhere else. Which then, and then, you know a script runs automatically each night or something, which then updates it on the server in Iceland.
1475.PF:So there's various ways that it could be done.
1477.PF:So it couldn't be direct.
1478.JP:I, I'm not (inaudible) that like,
1480.JP:we, there's no like, doubt in our mind that you were the creator of the website. Uh,
1481.PF:Oh yeah there's, yeah.
1482.JP:Yeah so
1483.PF:Definitely I'm the creator and the maintainer,
1486.JP:Yeah. Like uh we, we get that, I'm not trying to prove anything there,
1488.JP:I was just curious more, more or less like how, 'cause we're talking about servers I pictured that had to be a big one if you had to, um, run an a-, 'cause your site is quite quick. So I know I've been on slow sites before.
1489.PF:Mm-hmm. Hm.
1490.JP:So I was figuring how, it was quick.
1491.PF:Oh you found it quick. Hm.
1492.JP:Yeah, yeah.
1493.PF:Um, myself I've been a little unhappy sometimes with the speed of the hosting provider in Iceland. Um, but what I'm paying for mainly is the, the free speech and the not bowing down to the U.S. Government.
1495.PF:Um, so I tolerate the slow speed sometimes.
1496.JP:Is it expensive?
1497.PF:The plan I have right now is kind of expensive, it's like 36 dollars a month or something like ...
1498.JP:Oh that's not terribly (inaudible), I was (inaudible).
1499.PF:Well the, the first plan that I had with them was only about like eight or nine dollars a month.
1500.JP:Oh yeah.
1501.PF:But after the thing came out on the news, like so many people were going to the site
1503.PF:and it kept hitting the resource limits and so people were just getting this page saying you know,
1504.JP:Oh so they (inaudible)
1505.PF:resource is maxed out.
1507.PF:Um so then I upgraded to the next level which was like I think, 16 or 17 dollars. But then again it kept maxing out so
1509.PF:then I upgraded to the highest plan. Um but my intention is when the current plan runs out um,
1511.PF:I'm going to downgrade it back down 'cause now the activity is gone down.
1512.JP:Okay. Yeah maybe that's why it was quick then for me 'cause it's, it's gone down a bit, I don't know.
1513.PF:Yeah, yeah.
1514.JP:Yeah, okay. Um, she also made mention, and (inaudible) I read about it, like emails, that you guys were sending back and forth.
1516.JP:Um, uh I don't know, like I know that you could be skeptical of that for sure obviously that if, if the emails that we have. Like 'cause they got a bunch of emails that they're making mention to, um, she's alleging that it's unwanted contact and that you're
1518.JP:harassing her and ...
1520.JP:Um, like she's provided a bunch of emails that I, I've read maybe a couple of them.
1522.JP:Um, what's your reason for continuingly trying to reach out to her that way? 'Cause it, if you just had the website I thought, you know, isn't that good enough or what's your reasoning for emailing her as well?
1523.PF:Okay first I have to say, uh there's been no email communication since the July 21st arrest.
1525.PF:And the reason my communication with her stopped at that point was the condition of the release on a, what was it on? They released me on my own recognizance on the condition that I not have, that I not contact her except to arrange travel and visitation for our son.
1527.PF:So at that point I discontinued any contact. But eventually that kind of went away because the prosecutor decided not to move forward with it. Um, but I still decided not to continue any contact because then what was the point? Um, see when I, when I was having contact with her before it kind of benefitted her. Because I would keep her informed of what my intentions were. Um, for the, s-, well I won't use the word attacks. Um, my intentions with respect to my pursuits to ruin her life, legally of course.
1529.PF:Um, and so that would kind of give her a heads up so she could prepare for them. But by not being able to have contact with her, it worked to my benefit because then, see the reason I would give her a heads up before is because I would have a sense of moral obligation that, if somebody is doing something to you and you're going to retaliate, you should give them a warning first to tell them, look if you don't stop I'm going to do whatever back to you. Um, but by not being able to contact her, that absolved me of that moral obligation so. Then it was much more effective. Like the, the things that I would do.
1530.JP:Okay. Yeah 'cause like I took a couple of emails. Um ...
1531.PF:Oh one thing you should notice about the emails though. I'm guessing a lot of them ...
1533.PF:probably at the end, says that, like has her part clipped out or not included.
1534.JP:Uh the e-, oh like um, um, like what you were responding to,
1536.JP:is that what you mean? Okay.
1537.PF:Um and also, my communication style um, differs from her somewhat in that, like she tends to be very concise. But at the same time very ambiguous and very unclear
1539.PF:in what she's saying. Um whereas I strive to be as clear as possible so my emails tend to be much longer because, you know I wanna make sure that I'm understood properly. But sometimes I have a tendency to forget a certain point and so I'll have a follow-up email. And that's why sometimes you'll see there'll be like four or five responses.
1540.JP:Yeah. Okay.
1542.JP:Who's {SC*****}?
1543.PF:{SC*****} is her other son.
1544.JP:Oh okay, I didn't know she had another son. Older, younger, younger?
1545.PF:Younger than {G*****}.
1549.PF:Um after, well, oh no this is with yet another man.
1550.JP:Oh okay.
1551.PF:Um after her and I separated she went back to Florida and got back together with the guy that she was with before her and I met. They eventually got married and then they had that son {SC*****}. She was with him until 2010 I think it was. Which is when they broke up and started their divorce and then she started going out with Christopher (inaudible) who was the meth user and all that dangerous stuff. Um, and then she was engaged to him. And then they broke up when he got arrested and went to prison but she continued to live in his family's home until he got out and then she had to move out. And then she hooked up with James PENDLETON who is her current fiancée.
1553.PF:I know there's like this endless stream of fiancées.
1554.JP:Yeah, yeah. I'm tryin' to make a, make sense of it. So this is the one, uh, despite that my primary goal in life is for you to experience as m-, much misery as possible.
1555.PF:Yes I don't deny that.
1557.PF:Absolutely. But once again I emphasize, legally, within the bounds of the law.
1558.JP:Yeah, no.
1559.PF:(Inaudible) (inaudible).
1560.JP:Like this is (inaudible). I think, did you title it More Plans? Or is that, because we, I wasn't sure if that's something. 'Cause you're, I was looking in, like headers basically. But this is the ...
1561.PF:I probably titled it More Plans. Um, the date on this is January 28th, 2015, okay (inaudible). Okay.
1562.JP:What's (inaudible)? Is that your company?
1563.PF:That's one of my companies.
1564.JP:Okay. Your person-, one you work at you mean or?
1567.PF:I am an employee of the company but I'm also the, what do they call it here, director? It's a corporation. I was the one that incorporated it um,
1568.JP:Oh okay.
1569.PF:technically I'm not the owner of the company because all of the shares of the company are owned by the company itself.
1570.JP:Okay, okay.
1571.PF:Um, but I would say from giving this a quick look, it looks like something that I would have written. Of course I'd have to like check my
1572.JP:Yeah, yeah. (Inaudible)
1573.PF:email to make sure 'cause she could have easily, you know gone in and changed some words
1575.PF:and stuff so I can't (inaudible).
1576.JP:But you emailed her from other emails accounts too right I saw.
1577.PF:Well, but see even this though like for all we know, this could have been typed up in a word processor.
1579.PF:And she could have modified it in any way.
1581.PF:Um, so I would need to of course, compare it word for word with what I have in the e-, like my email logs. Um, so for that reason what I'm saying is, I can't attest
1582.JP:Confirm the ...
1583.PF:to the authenticity of every word in here.
1584.JP:I gotcha.
1585.PF:But I would say, sure it looks like something that I
1587.PF:I might have written. Now is there some point of concern in here? If so I might be able to explain ...
1589.PF:the meaning.
1590.JP:there was something I was, um ... I don't believe there wa-,
1591.PF:Oh okay.
1592.JP:there, um, I think it was, well that one I guess but for I wasn't sure but now I've kind of come to realize what you mean by that, now as, as much misery as possible.
1593.PF:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
1594.JP:Uh ...
1595.PF:Um, by pursuing things like or by trying to do things like making it so that she can't get a job. But by doing it legally, but publishing uh, proof of the kind of person she is, proof for her drug use, proof of how she's a compulsive liar. Like she goes on T.V. and says this one thing
1597.PF:and the next day she goes on the radio and completely contradicts it. She wouldn't think twice about making up lies about a person, ruining the person's life. Um, the project I had a V-Tech.
1599.PF:Was a pretty lucrative project, I was doing quite well there. And I'm technically not supposed to talk about the terms of why the position ended, coincidentally two days after the CBC story came out.
1600.JP:Oh yeah.
1601.PF:Um the severance packages they, you know.
1603.PF:So this is completely off the record between
1604.JP:Uh nothin's off, I gotta stop ya.
1606.JP:'Cause I've had people, like I don't know what you're gonna say so I don't even bother going down that, nothing's off the record.
1607.PF:Okay then um ...
1609.PF:But, you can probably infer from the fact that my position there ended two days after the CBC story. And they, I can say they agreed to continue paying my salary for the next period of time, few months. Um on the condition that I agreed not to discuss um, the terms of why the employment ended.
1610.JP:Okay. Fair enough.
1611.PF:From that I'm sure you can, (inaudible).
1612.JP:I can, yeah.
1613.PF:Yeah. So she wasn't the only person. Like she likes to paint this picture, she even said it on the news in the interviews that, he gets away with it, he raises the bar and he just keeps getting away with it, nothing ever happens to him.
1615.PF:How, how can she say nothing ever happens to me?
1616.JP:Yeah. Yeah.
1617.PF:I've lost my son, I haven't
1618.JP:Yeah, and your job (inaudible)
1619.PF:I haven't seen him in almost a year.
1620.JP:your job.
1622.JP:Yeah. Hm.
1623.PF:And meanwhile she's the one that keeps doing all this stuff and everybody just keeps feeling sorry for her and she says that nothing happens to me.
1625.PF:I'm the one sitting in a police station.
1626.JP:Yeah, no, no fair enough. Um ...yeah that's the guy. James PENDLETON.
1627.PF:Ah. Yes.
1628.JP:Is that from the App or is that just uh ...
1629.PF:(chuckles) No, no that's uh,
1630.JP:'Cause people believe that's, I looked at some of the comments. People actually think that's what he looks like. But that's not,
1632.JP:Yeah. No I admit it, I'm like oh it's w-, I'm like,
1633.PF:Um ...
1634.JP:The comments (inaudible), reports never seize to amaze but. It's well done
1636.JP:'cause the guy looks like, it could look like (inaudible).
1637.PF:There's a, an image editing program
1639.PF:that's commonly used in Linux and Unix environments called GIMP, the
1641.PF:GNU Image Manipulation Program, kinda like uh Photo Page or Photoshop
1642.JP:Oh yeah.
1643.PF:or whatever it's called.
1645.PF:Um, and I use that and there's like a filter that, you make like a, ellipses shape around the area that you want to expand or contract.
1647.PF:And so I just kind of bugged out the eyes and did a pinch.
1648.JP:Of his m-, his mouth.
1649.PF:On the mouth part. Yeah.
1650.JP:It looks like it could be, like, pretty like, at first glance you're like whoa, that's a weird looking guy but.
1653.PF:Um, when, may I ask when was this printed?
1654.JP:Uh, today I think. I did this.
1655.PF:Oh. Mind if I, since I've been in custody
1656.JP:Actually I (inaudible)
1657.PF:for the past few weeks I
1659.PF:haven't been able to keep up with, I'm just curious how many views. 278 (inaudible). This one has been getting a lot of views. See a lot of,
1660.JP:Ja- ....
1661.PF:Oh James PENDLETON it's,
1662.JP:Oh yeah, yeah, okay.
1663.PF:her fiancée. Um, a lot of people have been interested in like how long is James gonna keep putting up with this woman and so.
1664.JP:Yeah. Okay. But he's still with her I guess.
1665.PF:Don't know.
1666.JP:Appar-, apparently yeah. Alright. I'm gonna be right back.
1668.JP:Um, do you need some water or anything or you,
1669.PF:Oh, no I've uh,
1670.JP:is your coffee done?
1671.PF:I've still got a bit in here, I'm (inaudible).
1672.JP:Okay. Oh I think I'm done. I have to work 'til uh, 6 a.m. so I'm gonna be
1674.JP:getting another one so. Later at some point. Alright. Be right back. You don't need that I guess. (Inaudible). (Inaudible) collect uh,
1677.(Cst. POTTS leaves interview room)
1678.(Cst. POTTS has brief conversation with someone outside interview room)
1679.(long period of silence)
1680.PF:Uh, uh, ow, ow.
1681.(long period of silence)
1682.(Cst. POTTS returns to interview room)
1683.PF:There was one, one that I kept wanting to mention but kept forgetting.
1685.PF:Um, the order of protection and the injunction against harassment uh are both on appeal. Um and there was a hearing schedule for oral arguments. I think it was June 7th or something.
1687.PF:Um I was in ICE custody at the time of course so I didn't appear for that. So it occurs to me that it's possible the, those um, restraining orders may have been vacated on appeal for all I know at this point. Um which could also be part of the reason she's like making a big deal about things now. She has this, kind of misguided belief that the order of protection makes any difference at all. Because, see the reason it doesn't and, again I've talked about this
1689.PF:on the website. Um, since I have the felony in the U.S., I'm already prohibited from possessing firearms in the U.S. So the order of protection, like the firearms prohibition, makes no difference, I'm already prohibited right?
1691.PF:And since if I'm an illegal alien in the U.S. again, prohibited from possessing a firearms. So what does she gain by having the order of protection? Absolutely nothing. I mean ...
1693.PF:Whether it was there or not I'm already prohibited from possessing a firearm in the U.S.
1694.JP:Yeah. And, and it's just a piece of paper anyway so if she's (inaudible). Yeah, I get what you're saying there. Um, uh, so we touched on the firearms.
1696.JP:Where are they right now?
1697.PF:They're um, okay admittedly they are in the U.S.
1699.PF:Um, but not because I had any intention of using them,
1701.PF:um it was because I was planning on moving to Toronto. I don't know anybody in Toronto.
1703.PF:So I couldn't ship them ahead of time to Toronto and have somebody hold them there for me.
1705.PF:Um, so I shipped them to somebody that I actually knew that would hold them until I get to Toronto and then forward them to me.
1706.JP:Okay. In California?
1708.JP:Okay. The same guy you were talking to text messages?
1709.PF:Um, I decline to comment on that further at this point. Mainly because I don't wanna get that person in any kind of trouble.
1710.JP:Yeah. Okay. Um ...
1711.PF:If, as I said um, if there's an issue with the PAL, if it's gonna be revoked or suspended or something, I have no problem with having them send it back here. I can have them ship directly to the RCMP or something. I mean.
1712.JP:Why should I believe you that you don't, that your intent wasn't to try and go, I mean, this looks bad, I mean the firearms are in the States, you're trying to
1714.JP:go across the border.
1717.PF:Why you shouldn't? Because as I had said, level of severity. Um, crossing the border, going down to the U.S. kinda down here. Murder. Kind of up here. If I cross the border to go visit some people in the U.S., the worst that's gonna happen, spend a month and a half in ICE custody, get deported back here. Go and murder someone in a state that has capital punishment. Worst that can happen, spend the rest of my life in my prison or get the electric chair.
1719.PF:Or gas chamber or whatever.
1720.JP:So you're saying your reason for sending them, the guns to California.
1721.PF:Is because I was in the process of moving. Um, all of my important critical stuff, you know I was gradually putting it into storage or like, sending it somewhere that can be held until I got to Toronto.
1722.JP:Okay. Uh you understand though, probably gonna figure out where those firearms were sent to.
1723.PF:Oh yeah and I have no
1725.PF:problem ...
1727.PF:telling you, it's just I really don't want to get that person in any
1729.PF:kind of trouble. Um,
1730.JP:Because obviously that's gonna probably be one of the main things that they investigate now.
1732.JP:Um, and there's many ways that they can figure that out right so.
1734.JP:Um, I'm not sayin' they're gonna find that out but they're gonna look and they're gonna try and find that out
1736.JP:so I'm asking you, you know where they were sent to. If you wanna try and talk about, more about why, like to show that you, are that your intent wasn't to, to kill her.
1738.JP:And that you're, no I was actually just sending it to John SMITH because I, he was gonna send them to Toronto or, like how, that's where I'm confused, like why you wouldn't just ...
1739.PF:Okay. First, the friend that I sent them to.
1741.PF:Doesn't actually know that they're there.
1743.PF:Because I put them inside of a computer. And shipped the computer.
1745.PF:To her. So all she knows is,
1746.JP:I'm gonna stop you.
1747.PF:(inaudible) computer, yes.
1748.JP:Right there. Um, I don't wanna talk about that any further.
1750.JP:Because I, um what you just talked about I, I'm gonna have to look maybe a, a crime. So I'm gonna stop you uh,
1751.PF:In the U.S., yes it would be.
1752.JP:Yeah I'm gonna stop,
1753.PF:Not in Canada.
1754.JP:'cause I don't have knowledge
1756.JP:of that a hundred percent 'cause I don't deal with the border that often.
1758.JP:But uh, I'm, I'm gonna stop you on that so.
1759.PF:Yes thank you.
1760.JP:Yeah. Um, uh I may come with that afterwards.
1762.JP:I'm gonna look into, you know more into that but, um ...
1763.PF:Um being a PAL holder, I'm allowed to ship firearms um, by mail or courier or something.
1765.PF:Um, and there's no restriction that I'm aware of. Um, however within the U.S., like shipping things across
1767.PF:state lines and stuff there's all kinds of restrictions. Um, so yes let's put that aside for the time being.
1768.JP:Yeah let's, let's stop (inaudible). Okay so, um, (inaudible). Uh. Okay. So uh, yeah we know where the firearms are now. Um, actually give me a second, I wanna check on that okay?
1770.JP:Give me one moment.
1771.PF:Um, is there a restroom I can use or?
1772.JP:Yeah, here come on out with me. Let me just grab my recorder.
1773.(background conversation)
1774.JP:Just, we have to wait one second. This way, one sec, come on in here. Let's check and see if we're clear. Hey Duck are we clear for a guy to come through to go to the washroom?
1775.UM:(Inaudible) male or female?
1776.DL:To his cell?
1777.JP:Yeah. Yeah. Here come with me.
1778.DL:What's your name again? I think I met you before.
1779.(background conversation)
1780.JP:Can he just pop into 9?
1781.UM:No uh, he could use his own (inaudible)
1783.UM:(Inaudible) 9.
1784.JP:Yeah, gotcha, gotcha. So.
1785.UM:Number 5. Number 5. (Inaudible).
1786.(background conversation)
1787.JP:Alright, just wanna have a seat there.
1788.PF:Thank you.
1789.JP:Be right back.
1790.(Cst. POTTS leaves room)
1791.JP:Sorry Patrick.
1792.PF:Yeah no problem. Um, something that occurred to me that ah, might be relevant or helpful. Um, with respect to sending things down to Los Angeles in preparation of ah the move.
1794.PF:Not specifically anything to do with (inaudible) or anything like that.
1796.PF:Ah and easily verifiable the company that I was using over the past couple of months I've been shipping lots of stuff down there in preparation of the move um which, I guess would go to show that um, if hypothetically speaking I had sent the firearms down there, it was just part of,
1797.JP:I think I should stop, I'll just stop you.
1799.JP:Um, ah based on what you've told me.
1800.PF:Mmm hmm.
1801.JP:I said I wanted to stop you.
1802.PF:Yeah, yeah.
1803.JP:Ah I've gotta read you something ah I'm arresting you for ah unauthorized ah shipment of a firearm. So that and I'm basing that on you, your (inaudible) you don't obviously have to say anything I'm gonna continue,
1804.PF:Mmm hmm.
1805.JP:I'm just let me explain all this to you. Basing that on your statement of having the firearm inside a computer. Ah do you understand that charge? What I'm alleging?
1807.JP:And it's unauthorized exportation.
1808.PF:Hmm. It was my understanding, like how is that unauthorized exportation to the US, approval or authorization is not required.
1809.JP:Just one second here.
1810.PF:Sure yeah.
1811.JP:Let me just get through this and then,
1812.PF:Yeah, yeah no problem.
1813.JP:Yeah. Ah it is my duty to inform you that you have the right to retain and instruct counsel in private without delay you may call any lawyer you want. There's a 24 hour telephone service available which provides a legal aid duty lawyer who can give you legal advice in private. This advice is given without charge and the lawyer can explain the legal aid plan to you. If you wish to contact a legal aid duty lawyer, I can provide you with a telephone number. Do you understand?
1814.PF:I do.
1815.JP:Ah do you wanna call a lawyer?
1816.PF:Not at this point.
1817.JP:Ah you're not obliged to say anything but anything you do say may be given in evidence do you understand?
1818.PF:I do.
1819.JP:Okay so, I don't know the exact charge however,
1820.PF:Mmm hmm.
1821.JP:We are looking at the criminal code from what we can see, ah exporting a firearm in the means that you did it, appears to ah, be, (inaudible) layman terms break that law that I mentioned. Unauthorized exporting of a firearm.
1822.PF:Yes I, I agree in the case of all countries other than the US however what I read on the RCMP's website was there is not restriction on exporting a firearm to the US or, yeah to the US temporarily. If exporting it permanently I'm required to notify the RCMP but it doesn't specify how soon and it doesn't specify like there's no clarification of what's meant by permanently.
1823.JP:Yeah I'm talking about though you told me that your friend won't know about it because it was put inside a computer.
1824.PF:Right but I'm, not gonna comment on that now because of this additional charge here.
1825.JP:Yeah no that's fair enough.
1827.JP:So that's what I'm talking about.
1829.JP:So ah same thing do you wanna, tell me about you know ah more about your, cuz it's strange to me that shipping to the States to get (inaudible) why you wouldn't, why you would go to that much effort to bring a firearm across the border.
1830.PF:Well not, not just a firearm my printer my computers.
1832.PF:Um my clothes um, the reason is well first I don't know anybody in Toronto as I said so I have nobody there I can ship it to. Now I could have shipped it there and had it put into storage maybe that might be,
1833.JP:Mmm hmm.
1834.PF:A possibility I'm not sure. The reason I didn't opt to do that is one thing I've learned, in my life particularly with the experiences I've had with you as authorities, is you never know what's gonna happen tomorrow and,
1836.PF:If I ended up getting arrested because I knew I was going down to LA for a visit so I knew there was a possibility I could get detained, they might charge me with something who knows I might go to prison for 5 years. Um, and then that would mean I would lose all the stuff again because eventually I wouldn't be able to pay for the storage so the reason I was shipping things or rather than using the word shipping because that implies using the postal service or something which introduces certain legalities. Um, the reason I was transporting let's say um things to my friend in Los Angeles is because I knew that she would hold them for me until if something were to happen then,
1838.PF:Now I know it's not very cost effective, because I was spending a lot more money,
1840.PF:Having it brought there and then brought back except I saw it as kind of insurance it's better to spend the extra money but at least know that in the end I'll still (inaudible)
1841.JP:What's your plans for ah like um, I don't know what's gonna happen ah tomorrow but obviously you'll go before a judge.
1842.PF:Mmm hmm.
1843.JP:What are your plans after that if you were to be released?
1844.PF:Well in light of these new charges um I think going to Toronto is probably gonna be put on hold. Because even if I wasn't required to stay in British Columbia um as a condition of release, I think it would be kind of impractical to go all the way to Ontario and then have to come back here all the time for court. So I would, presume that I would stay here in BC until this matter is resolved um, I think though given the way all of this looks on paper when it's presented to the judge, I don't think honestly that ah there's much chance that I'm going to be released. Tomorrow.
1845.JP:Okay and was it your intention to go back to your place on Sunset?
1846.PF:Mmm, I would say no.
1847.JP:Or do you not have that any more I don't think you have that any more.
1848.PF:No I don't.
1849.JP:Yeah I figured,
1851.JP:I figured you, you, did your mon, your rent end at the end of May?
1856.PF:My intention, before coming here to the RCMP when ah I was expecting that I was coming back to Vancouver, was that I was going to come here probably be here for a few days, see where everything stood and then head off to ah Toronto. But in light of all these new developments now, most likely if I was released, well I shouldn't say most likely. If I was released um, absolutely I would be staying in Vancouver I mean,
1857.JP:Yeah. But you weren't ah I, I can see and you know in, in, clearly you weren't, your intent was to, you weren't comin' back to, you know you go across that border you're not comin' back here. That's obvious to me. You've given up your place all your stuff has been shipped.
1859.JP:So that's pretty evident to me that you were either gonna stay in California, stay in the States or go back to Ontario which I don't get but,
1860.PF:Yes. Well the Ontario thing you understand is purely because of the situation with my son.
1861.JP:Mmm hmm.
1862.PF:So that he has the option if he chooses to leave there and,
1864.PF:Come back with me.
1865.JP:But that wouldn't be until October you, that you'd necessarily (inaudible)
1867.JP:Cuz that's when he turns 16.
1868.PF:Well in September he turns 16,
1869.JP:Ah sorry September.
1870.PF:The thing is we're so close to his 16th birthday. If he were to run away, next month or something,
1871.JP:Mmm hmm.
1872.PF:Um honestly I don't think that many people are really going to,
1874.PF:Would make a big deal about it.
1876.PF:Um, it would never be my intention though to take him by force. Because,
1878.PF:There's a custody order there and because I don't believe in forcing a child to live with a parent they don't wanna live with anyway.
1880.PF:Um, me going to Ontario is purely so that he has the option if that's what he wants to do.
1882.PF:And, as for, the possibility that I may have decided to go to Los Angeles and stay there, um that may have been something I had considered but I look at all of the, the risks and the downsides of it and it's just not like, there's just not really an incentive for me to stay in Los Angeles at any moment, ICE could show up at my door and I could spend 6 weeks in custody if I'm working on a project at the time obviously I'm gonna lose the project I wouldn't be able to get an employment reference from them um it's just such an incredibly precarious situation that that would put my life in.
1883.JP:Okay. Um, obviously the investigator thinks that you shipped those firearms, and is gonna fear anyway,
1884.PF:Mmm hmm.
1885.JP:That you shipped them there to go and get them and then who knows what you were gonna do with them afterwards.
1886.PF:Sure and,
1888.PF:That's fine um,
1890.PF:That's purely speculation though that's anticipation or speculation of a crime that may possibly occur at some point in the future. Not something that has actually occurred.
1891.JP:Yeah no absolutely,
1893.JP:That's ah, (inaudible) he's gonna think that,
1894.PF:Sure. Yeah.
1895.JP:That you, that was your intention right so,
1897.JP:Um, were you gonna go to Arizona?
1899.JP:No? Would there be any,
1900.PF:I've had very bad experiences with Arizona.
1901.JP:Yeah okay.
1902.PF:Um, there are very um, very anti-immigrant there and they're very strict like if I was to go,
1904.PF:To Arizona and even just get pulled over for not signaling.
1906.PF:I'd end up back in custody again and just,
1908.PF:That absolutely wouldn't be worth it um,
1909.JP:Where is your stuff right now? Because that's a, like, ah, obviously that's somethin' we need to know we need to find out,
1911.JP:Where is your, where is your stuff right now?
1912.PF:Let me ask you.
1914.PF:Is there a way that we can handle this that won't adversely affect my friend. Um,
1915.JP:I can't answer that because I don't know the US laws I, I obviously I don't even, I don't,
1916.PF:Mmm hmm.
1917.JP:And I'm not familiar, I deal with more um, like my, (inaudible) bread and butter but the main thing I deal with is sex assaults.
1918.PF:Mmm hmm.
1919.JP:So I don't deal with shipment of firearms like that so,
1921.JP:I would be, it would not um, it'd be wrong of me to comment and then,
1922.PF:Yeah, yeah.
1923.JP:Tell you and I would be misinforming you if I told you that it wouldn't. Cuz I don't know.
1924.PF:Mmm hmm.
1925.JP:I had to look up the, this crime. I'm being, I'm being very forthcoming with you I'm tellin' you like I,
1927.JP:I didn't know I just knew that, that you when you made that statement that you know I felt that, but anyways.
1928.PF:Mmm hmm.
1929.JP:So where are the, where is, where is your stuff right now?
1930.PF:Um, okay first let me say my main concern in this matter is not so much incriminating myself but trying to protect my friend who has no knowledge that any of this has even occurred,
1932.PF:Um from getting in any kind of trouble um because since she has no knowledge of it, she obviously hasn't done anything wrong. But sometimes the law enforcement in the US doesn't care about those kinds of things um so I don't wanna put her in bad position.
1933.JP:How do you know she doesn't know?
1934.PF:Because anything that I've shipped down there, she hasn't taken them out of the boxes they're all just like off in the corner in the boxes.
1936.PF:Um and in fact, she would even be able to ship the entire like the same box, hypothetically if I had shipped it um she would be able to ship that same box right back without having opened it or anything.
1939.JP:But she wouldn't be able to ship to Canada because if it, ah that would put her, I mean I'm sure you wouldn't ask her to do that because that could put her in a precarious posi, position knowing that you know that there's a firearm inside one of those boxes.
1940.PF:Well she would have liability if she knew what was in it.
1942.PF:But if she shipped something back to me, without having any knowledge of what was actually in it, then,
1943.JP:It would just, yeah it'd be an investigation right to, she'd have to, you know prove that she didn't have any knowledge and maybe didn't open the box or what have you.
1944.PF:Right. Um, see I'm a little concerned though that if I tell you specifically where it is, that all of a sudden storm troopers are gonna go racing into her place and ah that's (inaudible)
1945.JP:My concern is right now is (inaudible) is that ah and I'm sure you can understand this.
1946.PF:Mmm hmm.
1947.JP:Ah, ah, and it'd be our fear and something that the investigator, is that you've shipped that firearm to somebody and they're gonna go and use that firearm.
1948.PF:That's an understandable fear um, absolutely not gonna happen though because the friend we're talking about is a short little Costa Rican woman in her mid-40s. Um, so, okay I absolutely know that that won't happen. Um, but of course there's nothing that I can say that can assure you of that.
1950.PF:Hmm. Of course if something did happen to Desire and if what happened to her was related to a gunshot wound, and let's see from the ballistics they would need the gun to determine if the bullet was shot from there but from the caliber that would narrow it down but the 9 mm is an incredibly common caliber so that wouldn't mean much. Um, um, um, um, um, um.
1951.JP:You shipped your 9 ml too (inaudible)
1952.PF:Well all of them.
1954.PF:Mainly because of the, the cost like I considered selling them but then I was thinking if I sell them I'm gonna take quite a hit on them I'm gonna lose quite a bit of money on them.
1956.PF:So then I thought well it's just temporary so it's not likely it's gonna be an issue. Hmm. I think the probability of something relating, something happening to Desire related to firearms, transpiring within the near future like the, the next couple of days or so, um, would be so minor um, hmm. What I would, I mean ideally what I would love. To propose. Is either for my friend to bring the package completely unopened to the um, local law enforcement there and then they can get in and they can verify with you or for her to ship it back by Fed Ex and I would cover the cost even though that would be huge cuz it was a 60 pound computer but.
1958.PF:Um, hmm. But I, honestly I think, from the officers or you call them Constables up here right not officers but ah,
1959.JP:Yeah, yeah. Officers is fine too.
1960.PF:Having spoken with me and from the content you've seen on the website, I think everybody knows by this point I'm not a violent person and I'm not a rash, irrational person.
1962.PF:And I don't think that anybody really believes that I would have any kind of involvement in causing Desire some kind of physical harm that could possibly result in me,
1965.JP:At this point I think I'll introduce you to police investigation how they work and how they,
1967.JP:(inaudible) um stuff that's going to happen and ah,
1968.PF:Mmm hmm.
1969.JP:It's gonna happen now is ah, and then I'll recommend is that they're gonna look at everything right now with,
1971.JP:Your credit cards, any cards you have ah your cell phones, writing search warrants, production orders, production (inaudible) credit cards um finding out where you ship the stuff from.
1972.PF:Mmm hmm.
1973.JP:Would be what they'll do. Um,
1974.PF:Yeah I can even tell you that.
1975.JP:Yeah so well I mean that, if you wanna tell him that's fine you where,
1977.JP:Where'd you ship it from?
1978.PF:The Packaging Depot on Kingsway at Gilley.
1980.PF:6360 I think it was.
1981.JP:Okay is that a, like a FedEx kinda thing or? Canada Post?
1982.PF:Um well it's a private business um they handle the shipping but also like packaging like if you need it boxed up and all that cuz some of the stuff I didn't wanna bother with boxing it and,
1983.JP:Okay. How come you chose them do you often ship with them or?
1984.PF:No I just I was googling like shipping and packaging places close by.
1986.PF:And ah found them and so I started going to them and went to them again and they had some computer needs so they asked me if I would help them out with some of that.
1988.PF:But they would be able to verify that there's been X number of shipments um,
1990.PF:Like my home theater system, my printer, my computers and.
1991.JP:Okay. When you ship them did you just ship it like right inside the computer or did you take these guns apart?
1992.PF:I think we're getting into some potentially incriminating territory there in, under US laws not under Canadian um, under Canadian law, there's no requirement when shipping it doesn't need to have a trigger lock on it or anything um, and it doesn't need to be disassembled. I believe the only requirement is that the package cannot contain any indication that it contains a firearm. So it complied with all the, you know Canadian laws.
1993.JP:Okay. You can conceal a, a firearm in, you looked at that cuz I haven't.
1994.PF:Oh yeah. Oh yeah,
1995.JP:Inside a computer?
1996.PF:I, I always look into what the laws are before I do something,
1998.PF:That's questionable. Um like I said before, it's very rare that I violate a law um I come very close sometimes but I always try to stay on this one side now if hypothetically I have violated any US laws by hypothetically um shipping any firearms to the US, that was again purely hypothetically I'm not admitting anything here um that would have been A because it's a different jurisdiction um and B weighing the, like the probability of it being an issue.
2001.JP:When, when did you ship them?
2002.PF:Specifically the firearms?
2003.JP:The, yeah.
2004.PF:Again that would mean,
2005.JP:When did you start shipping stuff (inaudible)
2006.PF:I started shipping stuff let's see I finished there in February I think middle of March.
2008.PF:And you know I would gradually ship something here and little bit there. Um, some of the things it just wasn't cost effective to bother moving so, like my beds and stuff and.
2009.JP:Yeah cuz I mean there's a charge in the Criminal Code um shipping restricted firearms um, ah, prohibited firearms um it kinda covers off that.
2010.PF:Mmm hmm.
2011.JP:So we are like we're not experts on this never charged anybody,
2013.JP:With this I'm tellin' you I'm just totally honest with you.
2014.PF:Yeah, yeah.
2015.JP:(inaudible) I am. Um but to me it looks like you've broken that law. So that's what we're, that's why I've chartered and warned you for that.
2017.JP:Um, ah, so that's kinda where we're at um,
2018.PF:Mmm hmm.
2019.JP:I asked you kinda where they were because I'm tryin' to figure out you know right now if, you're saying your friend doesn't know that they're there the firearms are in this,
2021.JP:Computer I mean um, right now the, it's fearful for us (inaudible) the location of these firearms have gone from here and now are sitting somewhere in the States and we don't know where they are.
2023.JP:And that's why I was asking you where they are located right now. So we're going to write production orders and you know tell us where the firearms went.
2024.PF:Mmm hmm.
2025.JP:Um that'll take time. But that's what you know um what we, what we'll be doing what I'll be recommending to the officer (inaudible)
2026.PF:Mmm hmm. What are production orders?
2027.JP:Ah it's basically do you know what a search warrant is?
2029.JP:Kinda similar to a search warrant a production order is served to a company um authorized by a, a Justice of the Peace.
2030.PF:Mmm hmm.
2031.JP:Um in that we ask for certain records and we explain why but you obviously we're investigating a criminal offence and we believe that we will find this evidence (makes noise) Judge or Justice of the Peace authorize it and then it ah, ah, may (inaudible) puts the company at work and they have to comply with that order to give us those documents.
2033.JP:So that's what I will recommend so um and if obviously in doing so, should be able to get the address of where those went so that's why,
2035.JP:I was asking you if you wanted to tell me now,
2036.PF:Okay. Um,
2037.JP:I'm not saying we will get that I'm saying that's what I'm gonna recommend,
2039.JP:That we do.
2040.PF:If you were to pursue that course how long would you anticipate it would take?
2041.JP:I couldn't answer that,
2043.JP:A production order but it usually, I mean I've written a production order and had it done all in one day.
2045.JP:Ah but I mean usually I mean the, could take a couple days it could take weeks I mean it's hard to say.
2046.PF:Right, right,
2048.PF:And then of course coordinating with US authorities and,
2051.JP:And if this is, if I am correct, if this is a law, ah, there will be fear, that ah we would like to get that if this is a law we would always (inaudible) like to secure evidence.
2052.PF:Mmm hmm.
2053.JP:There would be fear that should you be released, you could just get rid of that evidence.
2055.JP:Ah and by many means ah so I don't know what's gonna happen I'm just kind of explaining how, my thought and what's going on in my head right now.
2056.PF:Yeah, yeah.
2057.JP:So I don't know if you wanna, comment further if you wanna sit on that.
2058.PF:Um, I will, contemplate that for some time. Um, my first preference would still be to have my friend ship them back to the RCMP um so that I can keep her out of it as much as possible.
2060.PF:Um because if we go that route, then they could be here like within a business day or 2.
2062.PF:Um, that of course would save all the people the effort of having to get the warrant and stuff or subpoenas or what did you call it?
2063.JP:Production orders.
2064.PF:Production orders.
2065.JP:Yeah. It may be called a subpoena in the States right?
2066.PF:In the US yeah.
2069.JP:Do you wanna sit on it for a second I'm gonna run out and go to the washroom.
2070.PF:Yeah sure.
2071.JP:Do you, do you need a water or anything are you good? Want some water?
2072.PF:Yeah sure some water would be nice.
2074.PF:File seems to be getting bigger.
2075.JP:No it hasn't at all.
2076.PF:Hmm. Um so I was rolling this over in my head and I'm thinking to myself um, it seems to me, based on what I know and my understanding of the, Canadian laws, I haven't actually violated any Canadian laws even with the issue of if I had shipped (inaudible)
2077.JP:Don't go off of that, go off of what I, cuz I don't want you, I've, I've arrested you for that.
2078.PF:Right, right.
2079.JP:So right now you are under arrest for that so,
2080.PF:No I, I understand that.
2081.JP:Don't, all your thoughts in your head you need to think about that I've arrested you for that so.
2082.PF:Oh yeah.
2083.JP:And read you your, your rights for that so.
2084.PF:Right, right. But while see I'm thinking like everything that I've been charged with so far if it were to go to trial which on my end it definitely would if you look at my history legally like in the US um, I've never signed a plea for anything except for a DUI one time. Because if I know I haven't committed the crime I'm not gonna sign a plea for it um so from my perspective it would definitely go to trial, and if it went to trial defin, I'm pretty confident it wouldn't get a conviction because first of all, Desire as a witness as a victim, um she probably wouldn't show up because she's a drug addict and while she's here she wouldn't be able to get any drugs she's incredibly un-credible my (inaudible) would you know (inaudible) proof that she lied so much. So that wouldn't go anywhere the shipping of the firearm and I'm not saying this to be like um,
2085.JP:Yeah you don't have to (inaudible)
2086.PF:Arrogant or anything.
2087.JP:Yeah, yeah, okay.
2088.PF:Um, I'm just explaining that I was rolling this around in my head. Because I was trying to think how can I best handle the issue with the firearms um because I wanna cooperate with you on that um, except I really wanna keep my friend out of it as well. So the thing about the firearms um, that I know I haven't violated any Canadian laws on. Um, I've met all of the shipping restrictions. Now you guys could, extradite me to the US to be prosecuted for whatever potentially might have been violated there. And then there's the question would the US authorities bother with it and I'm guessing probably not but they might who knows. Um but that's a whole other issue. Now, knowing all of that I still wanna cooperate with you guys even though I'm quite confident in my mind there wouldn't be a conviction that would be able to come from this um, oh also one more thing about the, uttering threats and the harassment thing. Even if she were to appear and testify and she was credible um given the wording of the statue there hasn't actually been any criminal harassment or uttering of threats um there's not a single record of a threat anywhere um but I still like I said want to, cooperate with you guys on the firearms issue um, so what I would propose, and I realize I'm not in a position to be negotiating here but what I would propose is that I contact my friend, have her UPS that package back here to this station or to the investigator or whoever's in charge of it um you guys can hold me in detention until that time and you can confirm that everything is there and everything is in order. Um, that way, you know you've gotten them all back you know where they are if you're gonna revoke my (inaudible) at that point and seize them well fine um, and everybody's happy.
2089.JP:Okay yeah I can't answer that question so.
2091.JP:Yeah. Um, ah so, is there anything in your computers or anywhere that you're within, that or your, your phone where you make comment I'm talkin' even if you deleted it because we have techy guys too. Ah called tech crimes. Um where you talk about going to Arizona?
2092.PF:To Arizona no definitely not.
2093.JP:Yeah. Okay. Or talk about sending someone to Arizona or talk, anything with your child.
2095.JP:No, okay.
2099.JP:Because obviously if we see something it would look pretty damning especially now that you're telling me you haven't right so.
2100.PF:Yeah. Right um I'm trying to think how I can best articulate this um, in a way that it would, be believable or credible um let me ask you, would you say that I seem to be a reasonably rational and sane person?
2101.JP:From what I've seen here today?
2102.PF:For the most part anyway.
2105.JP:Ah rational yes definitely and, and it's, yeah (inaudible) sane you know I would say yes.
2106.PF:Okay and clearly I have a reasonable understanding of the law and from that post that I made about the, the (inaudible)
2107.JP:Haven't seen, ah yeah I haven't seen that but ah,
2108.PF:Oh well just from my grasp of like the laws here and you know being careful not to break the laws and such but um from that post the logistics there, um I've clearly put some thought into what would actually be required so I know how difficult if not impossible it would be to actually harm Desire particularly even with all of that aside I would be the prime suspect if anything happened to Desire. Which is part of the reason while I was in ICE custody, I was really hoping something did happen to Desire because that gives me you know um what do you call it an alibi. Um, but apparently nothing did. Um, so, given that I'm probably a pretty rational sane person and I have a very strong sense of moral obligation as a parent to my child to fulfill certain obligations to him um doing anything to her ah or being related in any way to any harm coming to her, um would result in me unquestionably being detained, probably going to trial and probably going to prison. Um, so I mean that, that would be, there's absolutely no way that I would be able to commit any offence like that and, even think of getting away with it.
2109.JP:How would you travel to Cal, how were you gonna travel to California?
2110.PF:On this trip?
2114.PF:I was going to take I was gonna walk to Linden,
2116.PF:Take the public transit bus the Whatcom transit bus the 25 I think it was.
2118.PF:Ah over to Coronada Station in Bellingham, catch another one from there I had all the ah, information in my tablet. Another one from there to Bellingham Main Station or something and then I catch the Greyhound to Seattle then I would take a cab over to the Amtrak station take the Amtrak down to California and I was gonna pay for it all with my credit cards the use of the credit cards clearly shows I wasn't trying to hide anything but you might be thinking but I hadn't actually used the credit cards yet except that there's records that show I only had $340 US on me and that wouldn't have covered all of the costs. So I would have had to use the credit cards.
2120.PF:Plus I had my mobile phone with me um if I was going down there to do something wrong just like I said about the logistics in there, the GPS information from the phone would be able to be used to prove that I was present in the US. If I was going to do something like that, I would have been better to leave my phone in Vancouver because if I ever turn the phone on for a moment, then it would connect to the cell towers and there would be a record there. Showing. So yes I crossed the border like I didn't go through customs there, the reason or that was one, um the level of risk I thought if I went through the check point um see most of the time when I would go through the checkpoint, like they would just look at the ID and go oh yeah okay go ahead. But if they did actually run the name or something or check my fingerprints, then I would have been detained. And possibly been, had legal issues arise from that. So the reason I didn't go through the checkpoint was simply because I thought it would just be more streamlined and lower risk if I didn't.
2121.JP:Okay. And you're saying you had your cell phone on you?
2123.JP:At the time?
2124.PF:Yeah you guys now have it in property.
2125.JP:Okay. Um, when was the last time you went through the checkpoint?
2126.PF:I don't remember off the top of my head.
2128.PF:I couldn't say an exact date but ah what are we in 2016 maybe sometime in 2014 summer wait (inaudible) here in 2015. Then I started at V Tek and I haven't been down there since then cuz ah the commute to Richmond.
2130.PF:My hours were so long because I was spending like an hour and a half getting to and from.
2131.JP:Okay. And did you have something arranged in Toronto already where you were gonna go?
2133.JP:No. Have you made, looked in, made enquiries about Toronto or?
2134.PF:Um I've looked into the job market um, and it seems comparable to Vancouver except for the specific type of development that I do um, Vancouver is mostly like game development and embedded development but,
2135.JP:Mmm hmm.
2136.PF:My background is mostly in ah business systems like financial systems and all. And there's a lot more of that type of development in Toronto.
2138.PF:Um, I researched the rental rates the cost of the hotels and the rental cars and the cost also of the flights from Vancouver to ah, Toronto.
2139.JP:And why would you look at that? Flights from Vancouver to Toronto if you're going,
2141.JP:To California?
2142.PF:Well because if I had decided to just not go to LA um and just go directly from Vancouver to Toronto.
2143.JP:Okay but that wasn't your intent though you were going to, to California.
2144.PF:I was kind of straddling the fence on it um a lot of things were kind of up in the air I mean.
2146.PF:Like there were a lot of variables that could have pushed me one way or the other and.
2147.JP:Okay. I gotcha.
2148.PF:Mmm hmm. Ow.
2149.JP:How ya feeling?
2150.PF:Mmm fine I guess I mean um I'm not really stressed or anything um I accept that I'm probably going to be in custody for some time. Not happy about it but ah, I mean mmm it's my own fault I guess. Well it's partially my own fault, I blame it mostly on Desire because she's deliberately trying to manipulate people into thinking that she's scared and I'm a big threat and all this stuff. Um the, going down to the US part, that was entirely my choice so I put myself into that situation. Um, the thing about the firearms again that I accept full responsibility for and.
2151.JP:Why would you ship like that's what I don't get why would you ever bother shipping those why wouldn't you just leave them here somewhere in storage or?
2152.PF:Well because if I had decided to go directly from um, LA to Toronto,
2154.PF:And not come back here first. Um then how would I get them from here to Toronto and then the other, concern I had was if I went down to the US and did run into legal complications, and if I did end up being detained for some indefinite period of time, then I may have lost them if I left them here.
2155.JP:Okay. Ah I'm being told apparently we already know who, believe we know who the friend is in California so.
2157.JP:Again (inaudible) I came in late so I don't have information,
2159.JP:So um, um, do you know a lot of people in California?
2160.PF:A lot, that's subjective um,
2161.JP:How many people do you know in California approximately?
2162.PF:15 to 20.
2164.PF:And I should mention that so far I've been, speaking of the one singular friend um but that's a deliberate, even though I may be referring to multiple friends um in order to conceal that I just refer to it singularly as one female friend.
2166.PF:So I don't accidentally slip up and say somebody's name and.
2167.JP:Yeah. I don't know if I believe you on that but,
2168.PF:That's fine.
2169.JP:That's yeah. Um so, there's any, is there anything else you wanna talk about that we can think that we haven't discussed?
2170.PF:Not really because, certain things might incriminate me. Certain things might mitigate the issue but I mean generally as a rule it's not good to bring up stuff when you're being interrogated. It's better to just,
2172.PF:Respond to,
2173.JP:This isn't really interrogation though I mean we don't, interrogation I mean ah it, I haven't been accusatory or it's (inaudible)
2174.PF:Okay interview then.
2176.PF:Interview however an interview where information that I had brought up, has been then used against me to bring additional charges.
2177.JP:Fair enough.
2179.JP:Okay. Okay I think we will given that it's midnight now I think we'll end it um,
2181.JP:It's 12:13 so um, yeah we'll head back to your cell.
2183.JP:You wanna bring your cup you're welcome to do so. I can take your (inaudible) and it's straight down. Straight through. (inaudible) left. (inaudible) here (inaudible).
2185.JP:Oh hey. We're back.
2186.UM:Ready? Okay.
2187.JP:Alright so Mr. FOX has been put, put back in his cell. Um, what I showed him during the interview, the first thing I showed him, was this e-mail it was (inaudible) more plans on January 28th it was sent on January 20, says from Patrick FOX. And it's got his e-mail and we've mentioned he pointed out that e-mail that he uses was solar onyx and that was a um e-mail connected to his work (inaudible) that's the e-mail and it's got one last, the second page it just says Patrick so from Patrick. Then there was this ah screen shot from his um, ah website and it's got a picture of ah James PENDLETON ah Mr. FOX said that he ah put that photo on there and altered it. And, and then we have a picture of, a screen shot of his website the front page. And I'll be ending the interview at 12 ah 00:16 hours on June 17th 2016.