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Desiree Capuano & James Pendleton
250 E. Placita Lago Del Mago
Sahuarita, AZ     85629
Tel: 520-288-8200

R. v. Patrick Fox - RCMP Interviews

Burnaby File: 15-32597
Statement of Patrick FOX
Statement Date: 2015/07/20
Statement Time: 23:14 hours

PF: Patrick FOX

1.RH:This is Cst. HUGGINS, Reg. No. 59640, on July the 20th, 2015 at 23:14 hours in relayed, or in relation to Burnaby file 15-32597 ... Alright (inaudible). This way ... And just in there, just on the blue chair there. Alright so first things first, I got a recorder over here okay uh the room is also uh recorded as well, video recorded and audio. Um, okay before we get started, I just wanted to remind you, okay, you don't have to say anything in here, and it's completely voluntary. Uh anything you say though can be used as evidence. Understood?
2.PF:I do.
3.RH:You do? Okay perfect. Um also you were given the chance to speak with a lawyer uh you declined at the time.
4.PF:Um hm.
5.RH:Did you want to speak to a lawyer now?
6.PF:I would phrase it as I would decline my right to an attorney at this point.
8.PF:I think that's much more clearer than saying want
10.PF:because want implies desire. And it's not that I don't desire to have an attorney present, it just wouldn't be practical.
11.RH:Okay did you want to speak with a lawyer now? Like you're, you're able to call one if you want.
12.PF:I understand that I have the right to do so and I waive that right.
13.RH:Okay um so at any point, if you wanna call a lawyer just let me know okay, uh we can get up, we can get you the phone and,
14.PF:Um hm
15.RH:get you in touch with a lawyer. Okay um the last thing I just wanna double check um you've dealt with a couple other officers, not just me tonight.
16.PF:Um hm.
17.RH:Uh did anyone for any reason, did you get the impression that uh you had to speak here today or bad things would happen to you?
18.PF:No I haven't at any point felt that I was being coerced or that I was under duress in any way.
19.RH:Okay, that's good. Uh
20.PF:In fact, I would say that I was treated with a lot of dignity and respect.
21.RH:Good, good, okay.
23.RH:Um and did anyone give you any promises that if you came and spoke to us today then like good things would happen or you'd be given
25.RH:Okay, good, just wanted to make that clear. Um and I'm glad you felt respected and treated with dignity cause that's what we, that's what we try to do. Okay so um you're here because it was alleged that you've been criminally harassing your, your wife or is it ex-wife, Desiree CAPUANO.
26.PF:Desiree CAPUANO.
28.PF:Um the issue of wife or ex-wife or ever legally was wife is fuzzy at this point.
30.PF:According to her when it's convenient for her, we were never married. However, apparently now when it's convenient for her, we are married. So we did get married in 2000 um and then she remarried another man, while still being married to me, we've never gotten divorced um, she was claiming that she could get an annulment. If that succeeded then that would void any legal marriage from previous so who knows at this point.
31.RH:So it sounds complicated.
33.RH:Okay. Um so criminal harassment is um are you familiar with criminal harassment?
34.PF:Well I understand the statutes might be somewhat different up here, I don't suppose you have a copy of that statute on you do you?
35.RH:I don't um
36.PF:Okay, I can look it up after.
37.RH:Okay or if you wanted to I could get it (inaudible) away okay.
38.PF:I, I'm, I'm pretty sure I know what she's alleging um now let me say I will admit arguably sometimes my behavior towards her and hers towards me could be considered inappropriate or in poor taste from some people um but I'm very careful to make sure that all of my behavior towards her is always legal. So the fact that there was evidence provided um that rose to the level of being criminal means that she must have forged or provided false claims or something. Um this isn't the first time though that she's called the police and tried to file a harassment claim. Once she did it in Phoenix last summer. I spoke with the detective um he admitted I had done nothing illegal, nothing criminal. He doesn't understand my behavior or why we're acting this way with each other but no laws were broken so the reason I think that she's doing this now is because I told her in an email over the weekend that I know that the boyfriend that she just moved in with with our son um after refusing to provide me the address of where he's going to be staying which legally she's required to do. Um so I informed her that if he really does have a top secret security clearance as he claims he does um he's in violation of that by being or what's the term by cohabitating with her because she's uh got a history of drug use, she's been committed to a psychiatric hospital before, et cetera, et cetera. Um and so um because I reported him to the D.O.D for that so that's why she's doing this I'm sure.
39.RH:Okay um what's the behavior that you were referencing earlier towards her that I can't remember your exact words but uh
40.PF:Arguably inappropriate.
41.RH:Ah, that's how you worded it yes, tell me about that.
42.PF:Um just a lot of what could be considered petty bickering um back and forth like this thing where she refuses to provide the new address that she's living at. Um, now she's legally required to do so uh because I'm the biological parent and uh I've had custody of our son from his birth up until 2011. She's been completely out of it. She had nothing to do with us and then she surfaces in 2011 and it's just been constant headaches like this since then. So um I can't really think of specific uh examples of what might be considered inappropriate or childish or just unappealing behavior um off the top of my head right now.
45.RH:Um so I mean criminal harassment for us just to really break it down to the the bare bones of it all
46.PF:Um hm.
47.RH:is basically when someone doesn't want contact from someone else.
48.PF:Um hm.
49.RH:Um and they fear for their safety from some of this contact.
51.RH:It could be following the person, it could be phone calls, it could be emails.
52.PF:Um hm.
53.RH:Okay so in this case it's uh the majority of it are the emails. You're sending a lot of emails to her.
55.RH:Oh okay.
57.RH:Well tell me about that.
58.PF:Well I'm not going to put it past her to uh submit fake emails that she'll claim that I've sent. Now consider even just a few weeks ago she filed a report while {G*****}, our son, was up here claiming that she had no idea of his whereabouts and she was concerned for his safety. Um, now the RCMP then went to the apartment while I was at work, they checked, {G*****} was there. She has my address, she has my telephone number, both at home in my mobile. Um for four weeks leading up to that while {G*****} was here she never called him, never called me or anything. Out of the blue she calls the RCMP and the family services and claims that she doesn't know the whereabouts of her son.
60.PF:And that was just a few weeks ago.
63.RH:So the emails that she's receiving, cause she's receiving a lot of emails that are, that are unwanted. Uh she,
65.RH:she told us that they're unwanted. What parts of the alleged (inaudible)
66.PF:I haven't, I haven't seen the emails. I don't know what emails specifically you're referring to.
68.PF:She could have taken an email I sent her.
69.RH:Um hm.
70.PF:and simply added a couple of sentences to them so,
72.PF:at this point I don't, I don't know.
73.RH:Okay, do you email her regularly?
74.PF:Well of course.
76.PF:We have a child custody issue.
77.RH:Yes and I mean from what I understand the child is an American so falls under U.S. law is my understanding.
78.PF:Well no, not really.
81.RH:Is he a Canadian citizen?
82.PF:He's got both.
83.RH:Oh he's dual citizenship.
84.PF:Well again according to the Canadian government. If I'm a Canadian citizen as the Canadian government says but they're basing it entirely on what the U.S. government has said. Um, so if I'm a Canadian citizen then that means he automatically inherited citizenship at birth.
85.RH:Okay I see.
86.PF:Because he was born prior to I think it was 2009 they changed that.
87.RH:Okay and I'm not sure of the exact year.
88.PF:Um hm.
89.RH:Um but that actually, that reminds me, that brings me to something else we're trying to figure out here today is your name, who are you, your identity, we've been trying to figure that out. I've, I've heard a couple different names.
90.PF:Yes. Um my legal name is Patrick Henry FOX.
92.PF:The name on my birth certificate is Patrick Henry FOX.
94.PF:I changed my name to Richard RIESS in the '90's um and I changed it to Patrick Henry FOX, last year, March.
95.RH:Okay so um you've gone back to what it originally was? You changed it to Richard RIESS at some point in the '90's and now you've come back to what it originally was?
97.RH:Okay and I'm not, I'm just trying to follow the flow here.
98.PF:Um hm. And if I seem hesitant in my responses, you understand I've had lots of dealings with, not so much with law enforcement but with prosecutors and the criminal or the justice system in the U.S. so I know that you have to be very careful about what you say, especially when you're being recorded and
99.RH:I, I can understand that feeling and I hate getting up in front of lawyers too. Their questions are very leading and,
101.RH:I try to keep things open so I get your version of it. Uh there's nothing I hate more than getting up on the stand and the lawyer leads me to some, meaning something I don't mean at all.
103.RH:But the way to word the questions is that I'm gonna go down there so you'll find a lot of my questions are very open, I wanna,
105.RH:I wanna hear your, your side of it. Um, cause something I have here. I got a copy of this.
107.RH:Certificate of birth.
109.RH:Is that yours? Or,
110.PF:I decline to answer that at this time.
111.RH:Okay cause I was confused because that's a state of Florida certificate of birth.
113.RH:And here I have this travel document here um,
114.PF:This is the document that the Canadian Consulate issued to I.C.E. uh for me to be removed they don't call it deported anymore.
116.PF:Removed from the U.S. to Canada. I made it clear to the Canadian Consulate um that I was making no claim of being a Canadian citizen or being that person and they said well, we believe you're that person.
118.PF:(Inaudible) okay great.
119.RH:so they believed you were Richard RIESS.
120.PF:Sure, yes.
121.RH:Okay that's what they believe. Um, and this year, I'm, I'm not, today I'm not investigating um, I'm not here to investigate like where you were born really
122.PF:Um hm.
123.RH:like what, if this is a forged document, I was just trying to establish basically who you are, that, that was my only purpose of bringing this up.
124.PF:Ya. With respect to this and whether it will be a forged document or not, I have the original of that at home.
126.PF:Um you're more than welcome to see it. Um, even if it was a forged document, I'm not using it in order to gain any kind of immigration or other benefit and so,
128.PF:it would be irrelevant even if it was a forged document.
129.RH:Then and like I said (inaudible)
130.PF:Now if I was to use that to enter the country or something or you know to gain some benefit then that would be different.
131.RH:And I'm not acting as an Immigration Officer,
133.RH:I was really just trying to figure out who you are you know like who are you cause okay, so this is the name you go by, this is the date of birth you go by.
135.RH:Um Patrick (inaudible).
137.RH:Henry FOX.
138.PF:I didn't want her having all of my information
140.PF:or information that she could use to contact the family that I deliberately tried to get away from back in the '90's when I left home.
141.RH:Okay gotcha.
142.PF:Um and so if the parents' names and stuff are on there then she could have used that to locate family and cause further problems for me.
144.PF:Um, but I do wanna be clear,
146.PF:that regardless of what the position is with this.
148.PF:The Canadian government's position they insist that I'm that person.
151.RH:So uh Canadian government said you are Richard RIESS and you have since then legally changed your name if I understand correctly back to Patrick FOX.
153.RH:Okay so you prefer to go by Patrick?
154.PF:Oh yes, absolutely.
155.RH:Okay, Patrick okay. That clears that up.
156.PF:I just wanna be clear that I'm not making a claim to being that person from Sudbury.
157.RH:Okay ya.
158.PF:Like when you asked me earlier where was I born and I said Sudbury, Ontario but I was clear that I'm saying that because that's what the Canadian government is saying.
159.RH:Okay so what do you say? Like where, where (inaudible), just
160.PF:Well you have the birth certificate right there, Patrick Henry FOX, born in Florida.
161.RH:Oh I know and you didn't wanna say if that was you or not and I totally understand that so this, this aside,
162.PF:Um hm.
163.RH:Um, where, where are you from like, if, if you are thinking of you and identifying with yourself.
164.PF:I believe and I have reason to believe,
166.PF:um and I phrase it that way and I'll explain in a moment why, um that I was born in Florida, specifically Hollywood, Florida which is a suburb just this side of Miami um, and the reason I phrase it that way is because I speak only about facts and firsthand experience and I have no recollection firsthand of my own birth. So therefore I cannot say I was born here or I was born here because nobody remembers where they were born.
168.PF:I just know what I was told and how I grew up and the information I was provided there.
169.RH:Okay so growing up I'm guessing just from what you were saying that you were told you were born in Florida and you're from Florida or have I completely misunderstood that?
170.PF:You understood that correctly,
172.PF:however I'm getting a little concerned now that we're focusing so much on that topic.
173.RH:Oh sorry that was, now that was just my curiosity. So that
174.PF:Oh. No I'm, I'm just
175.RH:You're right, we're off topic and that was just curiosity there.
176.PF:My well, the reason for my concern there is because that's the kind of thing that could be used to establish if somebody is a flight risk and should be denied bond um and if these charges proceed and then I'm denied bond for potentially being a flight risk then that means that I'll be sitting in custody until the matter goes to trial but I can tell you right now even if it got to the point of going to trial the trial would never proceed because Desiree would have to testify at the trial about the evidence that was submitted. Um the evidence undoubtedly is going to be false because there's not enough evidence there to support an allegation or a claim of uh criminal harassment. Um and she's not going to testify under oath that these documents are true when they're not because then we'll be able to prove that they're not true. Um the other issue is she's in Flo, or not in Florida, she's in Arizona and she's a drug addict so I highly doubt that she's gonna travel all the way up here to attend a trial for something like that.
178.PF:So (inaudible)
179.RH:And I mean that's, that's something down the road that we can look at. Um,
181.RH:because you spoke of flight risk.
183.RH:To be honest my concern right now is do you have access to get into the United States? Do you have a, a pa, like basically if you were to show up with whatever documents you have, are you able to legally cross the border into the U.S.?
184.PF:Um I don't have a current passport at this time.
186.PF:Um U.S. law uh prohibits the U.S. government from preventing a U.S. citizen from entering the United States however as I learned from being in custody for 4 years, U.S. law and the way things are supposed to be, don't matter in the U.S.
188.PF:Which has a lot to do with why I haven't been making any effort to go back to the U.S.
189.RH:Okay. Uh do you have passports in any other names
191.RH:that would have your photo on it?
193.RH:Okay, okay. Um, do you, do you believe you have any way of getting into the United States without being uh arrested at the border or apprehended at the border?
194.PF:Anyone can, the border is open, just walk across.
195.RH:Okay but do you, like if you were to be seen by a police officer or a peace officer down there, a customs official and they were to identify who you were um do you feel like you'd be allowed to keep crossing? Uh basically what I normally do is if if someone's a flight risk
196.PF:Um hm.
197.RH:I simply just take their passport.
198.PF:Um hm.
199.RH:You're saying you don't have a passport in your name,
201.RH:so I'm wondering if there's another sort of document that would allow you to cross into the states.
202.PF:Well I have the U.S. birth certificate,
204.PF:and I have government issued photo I.D. Now technically the U.S. Birth Certificate establishes you a citizenship and so based on that the U.S. government legally cannot keep me out of the U.S. However, at the same time legally they couldn't hold me for four years either but they did. Um, based on that kind of behavior on the part of the government I have very little interest in going back to the U.S.
205.RH:Okay and
207.RH:I, I mean that's good for me to hear um to be honest part of me releasing you I might want a condition where we temporarily hold your um birth certificate for the U.S. until we can sort this whole thing out just to make sure.
208.PF:Um hm.
209.RH:But uh Desiree is safe. Um,
210.PF:Um hm.
211.RH:we're just concerned about her safety at this point.
212.PF:Of course you are because she's only 1500 miles away.
213.RH:We, we've seen it all right?
215.RH:We've, we've seen people with grudges, uh ex-partners.
216.PF:Um hm.
217.RH:There's, there's distance isn't really a limit, if, if they're motivated, if they're angry enough, they're gonna make it happen.
219.RH:Um I, I don't know that you're one of those guys, I have no way of knowing that but I just have to act on what past experience
221.RH:has taught us right?
222.PF:Now of course you realize at the same time I could have any time over the past two years since I've been up here could have travelled down to Arizona and done something to her if that was my intention.
224.PF:Nothing changes now. (Inaudible).
225.RH:Well I, I don't know that right,
227.RH:some guys, some guys are okay until there's the tipping point of uh absolutely no contact or the tipping point of okay, now you're here with police
228.PF:Um hm.
229.RH:in a cell and you're facing charges. For some, for some people that's the tipping point.
231.RH:So for me I would say there's something changing here. Does that mean you're necessarily gonna change? No.
233.RH:But people, people can change from stuff like this.
234.PF:Sure. Now you should also understand that from my perspective her doing this really works in my favor substantially because when our son hears that she has done this, as much as he despises her right now, he's gonna despise her even more.
235.RH:Okay. And how do you feel about that?
236.PF:Well I think that's good. Part of the reason that I withdrew from the custody proceedings last summer is because I wanted him to see how she was going to behave when there wasn't court orders forcing her to let him come and visit um and over the past year he's had a significant opportunity to see what she's really like.
237.RH:Okay. How old is he now?
239.RH:Oh 14, okay.
240.PF:He'll be 15 in September.
242.PF:Then next year when he turns 16, he's legally, under Ontario law um allowed to leave his parents and live on his own. His plans at this point maybe I shouldn't say, uh it doesn't matter cause once he turns 16 he can leave. Now, anywhere in the U.S. of course you have to be 18, in British Columbia you have to be 19. But because he's got the Canadian citizenship once he sets foot into the province of Ontario,
244.PF:nobody can do anything.
245.RH:Oh okay, ya, I understand.
246.PF:So that's his intention at this point.
247.RH:Uh and, and I have no safety concerns for your son at this point.
249.RH:This isn't at all me saying you know you're, you're a bad father to him. That's, that's not at all what this is about.
250.PF:Um hm.
251.RH:And I mean if he wants to come up here and you guys can live happily ever after that's great okay? Uh it's not something I'm concerned about.
253.RH:Um going back to the unwanted emails and stuff.
254.PF:Um hm.
255.RH:Um I've been told about a website as well.
256.PF:Yes there is a website.
257.RH:Tell me about the website.
258.PF:The website contains factual information, only true factual information and I have requested of her repeatedly that if there's anything on the infor, on the website that is not true to let me know of it and once it's brought to my attention then I would correct it because if I knowingly put false information about her on there, then that could be liable, um that would be civil of course I realize that.
259.RH:That, that would be civil.
260.PF:Right. Um, and so, she has never stated that anything on the website was not true. Now the fact that everything on there is true, um means that it is all entirely legal.
261.RH:Okay does she, has she ever told you that she doesn't want contact with you, that she, she doesn't wanna get into these e-mail battles that she doesn't wanna hear from you?
262.PF:Not really. No I'd have to say no I have no recollection of her ever doing that. She too sends very strongly worded e-mails to me as well of course I'm sure she hasn't provided copies of those. Um, but this is certainly not a one way thing.
263.RH:Ah I've, I've seen some of the e-mails I see there's stuff going back and forth.
264.PF:Mmm hmm.
265.RH:Um, speaking to us it seems like she's, she's called police a couple times now and you know that you've said that,
267.RH:Ah, you get called in because she's calling.
268.PF:Mmm hmm.
269.RH:Um have you ever gotten, the opinion or the idea that she doesn't want to hear from you?
270.PF:No. And in fact when I show her e-mails to ah other associates or ah I have a private investigator for example that keeps an eye on her down there. Um, their opinion based on her wording and based on how angry she gets about certain things um is that, how can I say it um, she seems to have some kind of emotional issue that she is upset about or angry about or something I don't know. Sorry emotions are not really my,
271.RH:(inaudible) has she ever,
273.RH:Oh okay they're not your, they're not my forte either I'm not, I'm no great with emotions. Um, has she ever tried to explain to you what the issue was or what her issue with you was cuz ah to me it just, looking at this,
274.PF:Mmm hmm.
275.RH:And I just got into this yesterday to be honest I,
277.RH:Just spoke to her for the first time yesterday um she, she seems like she doesn't wanna talk to you it, it seems like,
279.RH:She doesn't want any of this contact she's getting with the e-mails with the website um the private investigator does she even know about the private investigator?
280.PF:Oh I've told her.
281.RH:Oh you've told her okay.
282.PF:Oh yeah.
283.RH:Okay. Um how does she feel about the private investigator?
284.PF:Don't know.
285.RH:Don't know.
286.PF:Haven't asked.
288.PF:Really how she feels about any of this stuff, doesn't concern me so much. Um, as long as, as long as she doesn't have a reasonable incredible fear for her safety which I can't imagine she could possibly have because again I'm 1500 miles away and she believes because she keeps saying it um, in her e-mails, that I was deported and I'm not allowed into the United States. Um she's already made it clear that if I am in the United States and she knows she's gonna call ICE again she's already done it 2 times. Um, so I can't imagine how any reasonable person could have any kind of credible fear for their safety.
289.RH:Okay and, and to be honest um she, she did tell us well she told my partner,
290.PF:Mmm hmm.
291.RH:That she does fear that um, if you were able to get across the border without being noticed,
292.PF:Mmm hmm.
293.RH:Um that you would go there and shoot her. She said,
294.PF:I'm sure that she would say that.
295.RH:And like I said this is something she said and,
296.PF:Mmm hmm.
297.RH:She expressed it as a fear she does have that you,
299.RH:Be able, you know where she lives um you have photos of, it seems like on the website you're documenting her every move.
300.PF:Not her every move there's a lot of stuff that's not on there.
302.PF:Her social security number isn't on there yet.
304.PF:Her medical records aren't on there.
305.RH:And you're saying yet.
306.PF:Yet right because,
307.RH:Yes are, are those going up there?
308.PF:(inaudible) violate no law, well oh yes definitely.
310.PF:I would not be violating any law by doing that and so I have every intention of putting her medical records from when she was in the psychiatric hospital on there. Um, and her social security number and anything else that is legal.
311.RH:Okay. And um,
312.PF:You understand that I really dislike the woman right? Now,
313.RH:Oh I can, I, I can see that.
315.RH:I can see that.
316.PF:Like I'm not going to risk doing something that um, could result in me, well okay how can I say it? I'm not going to do something that could potentially result in me being incarcerated or deported from Canada or anything like that. Um, but at the same time I have made it very clear to her, that after what she did to me with the deportation and all. Um, it is my, main purpose in life, to do everything that I can ah to completely ruin and destroy her life. Legally though.
318.PF:Typically by using her own words against her like being a racist for example and white supremacist um those are her views now if I put that on the website, and it's just the truth. If, she's uncomfortable with that and thinks that some Latinos are gonna go her house and yell at her or something, well maybe she shouldn't be a white supremacist.
319.RH:Okay and you know what that, that is one of the concerns she had ah that she disclosed to us too was ah that specific example is,
320.PF:Mmm hmm.
321.RH:That on the website you, you've wrote, written this stuff as if it's her. And she was concerned that people that would take offence to that, might come to the house and act on that and that, that e-mail your,
322.PF:Mmm hmm.
323.RH:Your son's there. Um and,
324.PF:Yeah she told me about that in her e-mail,
326.PF:A few days ago.
327.RH:Okay yeah so that was one of them she'd referenced with us. Um,
328.PF:And I responded to that e-mail explaining that yes I did consider that and I explained why I would not be concerned for {G*****}'s safety in that type of a situation.
329.RH:Okay and what did,
330.PF:My experience with um, Latino people mainly from Mexico and Guatemala and a couple other countries there. Um, a lot of it from being in custody with them. Is that they are for the most part um, I mean aside from being criminals but ah decent and somewhat honorable people they're not going to go harm somebody's child if they have a beef with the parent.
331.RH:Okay I, I personally can't speak on, on that um I don't know.
332.PF:Mmm hmm.
333.RH:Have the same experience that you do. Ah there was also some comments about ah I think it's promoting Hitler and some of those comments there and,
335.RH:Hitler was against a lot of people it wasn't just the Jews. He was against,
337.RH:A lot. And there are many different races that might be offended by that and in my opinion, I think her fear is real in that she, she would be fearful of retaliation from somewhere else I mean like you said,
338.PF:Mmm hmm.
339.RH:This is available to everyone right everyone,
341.RH:Can (inaudible) go on this website see this. Ah I mean if, if she's going for a job she's applying for jobs. Um,
343.RH:These things can pop up. Right?
344.PF:Yes. And that would be the, I guess the goal or the objective of publishing that type of truthful information about her um so that it would prevent her from being able to get a job. But to do so ah on my part doesn't violate any law. As long as the information is true.
345.RH:Well, um, it's more safety concern right and it's, at this point your messages and the things you're doing to her and the constant contact.
346.PF:Mmm hmm.
347.RH:It's when there's a potential safety risk to her because of the things that you're doing,
348.PF:Mmm hmm.
349.RH:That's where it kinda kicks in um she's in the States but you're in Canada and this is the stuff you're doing.
351.RH:Right so you're compiling this stuff. And your actions are, potentially causing someone to be harmed and she has a legitimate fear for her safety in, in my opinion.
353.RH:For, for retaliation which is, which is why we're here today.
354.PF:Mmm hmm.
355.RH:Okay? Um,
356.PF:But to be clear though, retaliation from other people perhaps because of her racist beliefs and stuff not retaliation directly from me. Or not, not retaliation from me or from anybody influenced directly by me. Meaning like I'm not gonna hire somebody to do anything to her or I'm not gonna have somebody or ask somebody to do anything to her nothing like that.
357.RH:Okay um, you have to understand though like a lot of people though they have views, they keep their views to them, themselves (inaudible) their close ones their, (inaudible) family.
359.RH:When they go into public they, they put on an appropriate ah social face ah if you're okay with me calling it that,
361.RH:And the social face they're respectable to other people um they may, they may not like someone of a certain race but they're still gonna respect them and show them kindness.
363.RH:The, the problem or I guess the difficulty comes in is if someone's broadcasting what thisperson may or may not be thinking and her views might have changed I don't know that.
364.PF:Mmm hmm.
365.RH:Um but the, this is being thrown out in a very public manner. Where a lot of people they're not able to, they don't know her they're just reacting on what they see. They don't understand that someone else is posting this on, on her behalf she, she doesn't want this.
366.PF:Mmm hmm.
367.RH:But they just see that as her doing this and,
368.PF:Well then I think possibly a reasonable solution for that, could be in the disclaimer at the bottom of each page, there could be um a comment that the site is not authored by Desiree CAPLANO. Current it says that the site is created and maintained by the immediate family of Desiree CAPLANO. Now that's legally true because we are legally married.
369.RH:Okay. Ah so and it said um, it's maintained by,
370.PF:In the footer at the very bottom of the page.
371.RH:This site ah was created and is maintained by the immediate family and or close personal friends of Desiree.
373.RH:Who are the close personal friends?
374.PF:Well and or.
375.RH:So, so and the friends okay so it's not and the friends so it, or the friends?
377.RH:But ah there is no friends basically. So it would just be immediate family I mean I'm just, I know I'm picking away but you can, you can see how,
378.PF:Mmm hmm.
379.RH:This could cause her a, a lot of, my, opinion,
380.PF:That could possible cause her some complications. Then again her calling ICE and filing false reports so that she could get custody of our son by default because the court was not gonna give her custody. And she realized the only way that she would be able to get custody is if I got deported. And that's how all of this started.
382.PF:So in my mind, I don't' think that anything that I may or may not have done with respect to that website, is anything near as bad as what she has done. {G*****} doesn't wanna be with her, never wanted to be with her um so for her to create a situation where I get deported so that she gets custody by default, um I think is far, far more egregious than something like this.
383.RH:Okay when does this end? At what point does, cuz I think (inaudible) mission in life to kinda do this to her.
384.PF:Yes. This ends, well let's see. One way it would end is when she reaches the point that um, I am happy or content with how miserable her life has become. Again without breaking any laws.
385.RH:Mmm hmm.
386.PF:Or um if there is a court order, compelling me or ordering me to take down the site. Of course there's lots of legal ways to get around that as well you could simply put the site up in another country like Italy or Bulgaria or something. Um,
387.RH:So, so at what point does she have to hit, where's this um,
388.PF:If she,
389.RH:Point in her life, that you'd be satisfied she's at that you could stop all this?
390.PF:If she were homeless. Strung out on drugs, and, yeah that would be, I'd be happy with that. Or alternatively, if um the whole world, saw the kind of person that she really is um not this sweet victim that everybody always takes advantage of and she cries on the phone and everybody feels sorry for her. A person like hat a sweet nice person, doesn't do the kinds of stuff that she does. They don't, go to Los Angeles and grab their son that they've had nothing to do with for 9 years the child didn't even know her. And she takes him while I was in custody because she knew I was getting out soon and brings him to Arizona and tries to get custody of him. It took me 3 months to get him back that time. And then I had him back for a year and a half and then she does this thing with ICE. Um, so I mean everybody always sees her as this very sweet nice person and so caring and loving and such but.
391.RH:Okay so we have on the one hand when the whole world sees how she is. How do you think that we could get to that point or how do you think that point will be reached?
392.PF:One way would be to promote the website more. Um, possible have some banner ads on some other high volume sites. But I could think of better ways more effective ways to spend my money than on that.
393.RH:Okay so it,
395.RH:Seems like that doesn't seem like ah, an option that you're gonna hit first. That, the whole world sees who she is cuz I mean the whole world,
396.PF:Right. Well yeah that's,
397.RH:Is a lot of people so we're lookin' at the other option and we're lookin at where she's strung out she's on drugs. Is that where you're tryin' to get her with all this stuff?
398.PF:Okay we need to consider to begin with.
400.PF:She's already a drug addict.
402.PF:Um she already has a history of ah, chronic marihuana and meth use. Um, the previous guy that she was with he's in prison now serving another 7 years. He had served 7 or 8 years before that and he was a meth addict and such and the reason he's in prison now is he shoplifted ion the AR15 from ah this, didn't, I'm, if you went to the site you probably saw the videos on there.
403.RH:Ah I don't think I looked at any videos ah,
405.RH:We didn't have the site at one point.
407.RH:You can keep talkin' while I,
408.PF:And so she was with him for a couple of years they were living together um and he was the one with the Nazi propaganda and paraphernalia around the apartment um now let's see. Where was I going with that. Oh yeah and so she would swear that he's the greatest guy that she's ever known there's nothing wrong with him he's paid his debt to society but I knew that he was still up to stuff I mean he got arrested and I found the, there's a lot of, public information on the internet in the US.
409.RH:In the US yes.
410.PF:Yeah like when you get arrested there it's, it's all over the place. Um, and she would keep sticking up for him and she would keep saying oh he's not using drugs I know he's not but then when they executed the search warrant and found the AR15 and they found a bunch of meth in the garage um you can't live with somebody for 2 years and not know that they're using meth. Because when you're using meth you're staying awake for like 3, 4 days at at time you look like crap you lose weight.
411.RH:That's not working, okay.
413.RH:(inaudible) as usual.
414.PF:Maybe it's my server.
415.RH:I don't know.
417.RH:Okay good um sorry where we were going with this is I was tryin' to figure out um, ah I know you're saying she's a drug user already cuz you were saying if she's strung out she has no home then you know you might be at peace here this might end this, is this, the purpose of this you're trying to get her to that point and then this will all stop?
418.PF:Well yeah because then at that point there's nothing more to I mean how much lower can you contribute to somebody being.
420.PF:Um but again, I wanna emphasize.
421.RH:Mmm hmm.
422.PF:My intentions with that, um would not involve doing anything that would be illegal.
423.RH:Okay. Okay. Let me just go over some of the stuff I had here cuz ah,
425.RH:I think we've, talked about the most part everything I wanted to talk, okay so ah we've established um that if you were to leave I, like if you were to be released from custody something I would want is your ah, your ah American birth certificate.
427.RH:To hold onto just to ensure you wouldn't be going down there.
428.PF:Mmm hmm.
429.RH:Um do you, I understand you have a firearms licence.
431.RH:Okay and you have how many firearms?
432.PF:Including rifles?
434.PF:Um 3.
435.RH:3. Okay.
436.PF:Though technically, well from a legal perspective, the rifle would have to be mine because my son's under 18. Um, but really it was a gift for him.
437.RH:Okay so the rifle's a gift for your son.
439.RH:But technically it,
440.PF:But for legal reasons of course it's mine.
441.RH:For legal reasons (inaudible) okay.
442.PF:Cuz he's under 18.
443.RH:Um do you have any sort of permits that would allow you to carry any firearms across the border into the United States?
444.PF:Well I have the ATT which allows me to transport it from home to any shooting range in BC or any border. Or any like point of the BC border. Now since the BC border and the US border touch um then that would be included in it.
446.PF:However, bringing a firearm into the US like the ATT allows me to transport it to the border.
447.RH:To the border, yes.
448.PF:Bringing it into the US um, that I highly doubt that they would allow me to do in the US.
449.RH:Oh well the, you need a permit to be able to enter the country,
450.PF:Mmm hmm.
451.RH:With, with ah firearms. Ah do you have those permits or those licence that the US would allow you to bring in firearms?
453.RH:Okay. Okay. Do you want to go down there and cause her any harm?
455.RH:Are you going to go down there and cause her any harm?
458.PF:Let me say if I was going to go anywhere in the US, the only place that I would ever want to go back to or that I would want to go to would be Los Angeles.
459.RH:Why Los Angeles I just went there for my first time and I wasn't impressed.
460.PF:I've lived most of my life there.
461.RH:Oh okay.
462.PF:It's home I mean it's, it's,
463.RH:Oh okay home is home.
464.PF:Yeah and, I don't necessarily believe in love and emotional stuff but using it figuratively I would say that yes I love LA but at the same time I'm very disenchanted with what's become of the US. Every since this September 11th and then department of homeland security and these border checkpoints and. It's so much freer up here.
465.RH:Yeah you can get around a lot easier up here.
466.PF:Yeah. You don't have to take your shoes off when you catch a flight. Yo don't' have to shot photo ID to rent a hotel room.
467.RH:No um, you, your business is, cuz you, you have a business that ah, solar,
468.PF:Solar Onyx Development Corporation yes.
469.RH:(inaudible) so that's registered up here in Burnaby and ah if I understand correctly in California as well?
470.PF:Yes I also have a California corporation with the same name.
471.RH:Okay and do you go down there to help,
473.RH:With the business no.
474.PF:Well no, no it's, it's not actually an operating business just for tax purposes.
476.PF:In California.
477.RH:Okay that's fine.
478.PF:The one up here is an operating business.
479.RH:Okay. Ah let me see. Tryin' to think of what, I'm pretty sure I've covered everything. Um the firearms you can't carry across the border. Okay um would you consider taking down the website? As, as things are now. I mean,
480.PF:Phrased the way it was? My response to that would be yes.
481.RH:Okay um what, what's, what are the like, what's the likeliness that you would take down the website or what needs to happen besides her hitting, I know we just talked about her hitting rock bottom, the whole world knowing, um what other options are there for the website coming down?
482.PF:Um, under the immediate circumstances I would say that the likelihood that I would take the website down, would be five percent.
484.PF:You see uh the reason I responded yes to your previous inquiry was, you asked would I consider it.
485.RH:Of course you'd consider it.
486.PF:I would consider it yes.
487.RH:Yeah and then you'd come to the answer no.
490.PF:Um, now if a situation arose like as I said uh, if there was a court order uh to take it down. Except I think that a court order to take it down would be very, very unlikely.
492.PF:At the most a court might order me to remove certain information.
494.PF:Um, but I mean with free speech and such it's incredibly unlikely that a court's gonna tell me to take down the whole site.
495.RH:Okay. If, if you were released on conditions to have no contact with Desiree.
497.RH:Would you abide by those court conditions?
498.PF:Well, that poses a bit of a conundrum though. Um because there is the family court proceeding in California that's still going on. Plus there's the issue of uh child visitation and such.
499.RH:Absolutely. How,
500.PF:So if there's
501.RH:how often does he norm-, your son normally come up here?
503.RH:Gab-, {G*****} is it?
504.PF:{G*****} yeah.
506.PF:Um, I, I don't believe in forcing him to visit and so when he visits it's when he decides, when he chooses that he wants to visit. Which usually is every opportunity that he can so really it ends up coming down to whenever Desiree allows him to visit. Um, this, I'm, I, well, at first I was very surprised that she was allowing him to visit like this summer. Then when I found out about the moving and she was moving in with this boyfriend and stuff then it all made sense, she just wanted the kids out of the way so she could do that. Um, I don't anticipate that she's going to be cooperative at all with any further visits.
507.RH:Okay. And what leads you to think that?
508.PF:Um, she's never cooperative. Like, see she does a lot of cruel, vindictive things. Um, but I don't go file exaggerated complaints about it. Um if she does something that is actually illegal, then maybe I'll file a complaint about it but I'm not going to blow something out of proportion just to create a situation like this because it's gonna come back and bite her in the ass later. Um, she has no credibility in the family court anymore because she kept making all these claims about like I'd hid {G*****} from her for nine years and that's why she didn't have any contact with him. Um, this one (inaudible), this matter as well, eventually it's going to be found that whatever evidence she provided that amounted to criminal activity um couldn't have possibly been real evidence.
510.PF:And so again her credibility then is gonna decrease and ...
511.RH:Okay. Well in, in the meantime before we get to that point
513.RH:if you were released, so I understand there's a child custody issue.
515.RH:Uh is {G*****} old enough that you can make the arrangements with him?
516.PF:Yes and I always do.
517.RH:And you always
518.PF:The arrangements are always made without her. Um, the only thing that we need from her is the consent and even that she like makes a big deal out of it and there has to be a hundred emails back and forth. And she'll make up these ridiculous restrictions and use very vague wording and so then I'll ask her for clarification and she won't respond and a week later I'll ask her for clarification again. And then she'll accuse me of being belligerent and ...
519.RH:Okay. Um, would you abide by conditions of no contact her except in accordance uh with childcare or, if it was worded that it was, it could only be allowed if it was in terms of childcare and transporting {G*****} for visitation?
520.PF:Um we need to clarify what we mean by no contact.
521.RH:Uh no, it'd be no direct or indirect so you can't go see her which isn't gonna
523.RH:Right? Um, no emails, no text messages, no phone calls. Uh in no way a message go between you and her.
525.RH:You can't tell someone to go deliver a message for her, you can't send a telegraph
527.RH:or whatever other way you can think of. Um except if that message was solely and its only purpose was to um organize a visitation
529.RH:between you and {G*****} whether that be a flight or a Greyhound bus.
530.PF:What if the communication is channeled through an attorney?
531.RH:That can be arranged as well, but it would have to be attorney, like through an attorney.
533.RH:Um, but
534.PF:Yeah say like uh, if it went from my attorney and then my attorney contacted her.
535.RH:But that would be in, in relation to the child care.
537.RH:Okay but, okay then no 'cause the, the statement or the conditions
539.RH:would be no direct or indirect contact with her.
541.RH:Except for the purposes of um organizing visitations for {G*****}. And the sole purpose of those communications would have to be for {G*****}, there could be nothing like hey I'm gonna add this to the site, or hey what do you think of this idea, or hey I don't like you for that.
543.RH:It could be none of that, it would just be specifically for {G*****}.
544.PF:Mm. And I'm going to assume if a situation arises where she initiates something like a civil proceeding against me, um then obviously we would be permitted to communicate likely through the attorneys. For the purposes of that. Like say if she were to try to get a court order for me to take down the website. Um obviously I would have the right to defend myself in such a civil proceeding.
545.RH:Um yeah but I, I don't see why you would need to uh, discuss things with her that could be um
546.PF:Through the attorneys.
547.RH:The attorneys.
548.PF:Course she probably wouldn't hire an attorney. So my attorney would then have to communicate with her directly.
549.RH:If she was doing the civil thing. I mean if, if that happens you can cross the bridge when the time comes.
551.RH:Um and if you need advice I mean I would suggest calling a lawyer, be like hey this is, this is my situation, do, do you think I have the right to speak through you or through someone else to send a message to her.
553.RH:And what they would likely do is they would give you the proper legal advice or they might have you call in at the station and, you know speak to um, either myself or my partner that's working the call and we can go over what the situation is.
554.PF:And how long would these restrictions be in place?
555.RH:These would be in place until this file is concluded. So basically um in order for me to release you,
557.RH:if I was to release you what I wanna release you on is a Promise to Appear.
559.RH:So it basically means um you're gonna have a court date, we'll figure out a court date. Um, I don't know how long yet but there'll be a court date down the road.
561.RH:And between now and that court date you will not be allowed to contact her.
563.RH:In any means except for uh {G*****}. And then once it goes to court they can either uphold the conditions or they can say no we don't want those.
564.PF:But actually if there was a pending criminal matter and she's the victim and I'm the defendant, under those circumstances the defendant typically isn't allowed to have contact with the uh, the victim anyway.
565.RH:Well that's what I'm saying.
567.RH:So this, this is a criminal investigation.
569.RH:So the conditions that you'd be, basically for me to release you,
571.RH:I have to make, I have to be satisfied that she's safe where she is.
573.RH:Okay I get the distance but like I said there's people that would travel that distance. Um so that's why I wanna remove the tr-, the, the birth certificate from you temporarily so that just to keep you from going down there to see her. Um, the firearms uh if I have the tr-, if I have your birth certificate you're first of all not gonna get down there, second of all you're not gonna be carrying uh a firearm down there because you don't have um, the, the licence in the States.
575.RH:Um, normally I would take the firearms from someone and I would, I would uh have their licence taken from them temporarily until the matter's settled.
577.RH:Because you're in Canada and she's in the States and removing that birth certificate I don't think you'll be able to get to the United States. I'm comfortable with you having the firearms as, as long as you're, you can tell me you're not gonna harm anyone with your firearms.
578.PF:I can tell you I'm not going to harm anyone with my firearms.
580.PF:And I can tell you that sincerely. Um,
582.PF:and admittedly that was one of my main concerns. It's a hobby.
584.PF:I have very few interests and hobbies outside computers and going to the range is one of them.
585.RH:Okay. Good shot?
586.PF:Um ...
587.RH:Or ...
588.PF:Depending on which um, which one I'm using at the time, like with the Beretta 95F I think I'm pretty accurate. Um I've got this Ruger SR45 though. Terrible, terrible gun. It jams so much and ss,
590.PF:Ruger's uh ...
591.RH:Uh I'm not an expert on guns, this is basically the only, oh I don't even have it on me. Well when I do have my sidearm on me
593.RH:that's, it's the force on, it's the only one I really fire.
594.PF:Smith and Wesson 5 something or other, I can't remember.
597.RH:Uh. Hm.
598.PF:40 cal or nine?
602.PF:I was gonna shoot one at DVT but they didn't have that particular one.
603.RH:Oh okay, okay. Is that your main uh range there?
604.PF:Yeah I have a membership there.
605.RH:Oh okay, good, good.
606.PF:Well it's pretty much the only one though. I mean, there's some outdoor ones (inaudible).
607.RH:Well if you wanna drive out to Abbotsford or,
608.PF:Oh no too far.
609.RH:There's one there. But uh, okay so yeah. In order for me to release you
611.RH:those are the kinda stuff that I take and then the last one is uh the contact right, 'cause it's a criminal investigation and
613.RH:for me to release you I'd wanna be sure uh that you are not going to contact her.
615.RH:Through those emails. Through phone calls, through, through those other means. I understand that you have a, uh a kid together, a child.
617.RH:And that there is visitation that happens back and forth. Which is why I would put on the conditions except,
619.RH:like I said for when organizing visitations for {G*****}.
621.RH:Would, would you abide by those conditions?
622.PF:Yes. Um, so let's see. With respect to the trial because absolutely there's no way I'm going to, I mean I don't know how much you looked into me in back, back in Arizona and such but uh, I sat in the (inaudible) Country jail county for 15 months fighting that forgery thing,
624.PF:representing myself and I absolutely wouldn't take a plea on it because I didn't do it so um, so obviously for something like this I mean there's absolutely no way I would take a plea so it is gonna go to trial. Well it'll actually get dismissed before it goes to trial but, um I would push or have my attorney push to get it to go to trial. Um, under Canadian, well no I guess there's no Canadian law that could force her, compel her to come and, it's not like the U.S. is gonna extradite her if she doesn't show up for trial.
625.RH:She may very well choose to come, I don't know and if
627.RH:Hey if she doesn't,
628.PF:Well I want her to come.
629.RH:well then it's good for you right? If
630.PF:No, I'd want her to come.
632.PF:So that she could testify under oath that whatever she submitted as evidence was, was true and it wasn't tampered with in any way and, then she'll commit perjury. Of course usually perjury's not really enforced and they'll just blow it off but ...
633.RH:Okay well, I mean, I think it would work in your benefit if she didn't come up but if you're wanting her to come up well then I mean, it's whatever you want but anyway um,
635.RH:just the, the only thing I'd um, actually seen about your record in the States before coming in here was actually literally right before I got you from the cell, um one of my partners uh, showed me on the cell phone he pulled up an article um, I guess you were convicted of ...
636.PF:Perjury and false personation.
637.RH:That's the one.
638.PF:Yes. And I could have those vacated. Um however I'm not because it works in my favour having those.
640.PF:Because, are you familiar with (inaudible)?
642.PF:It means that once any one court makes a ruling based on some factual basis, no other court um can make any kind of ruling that would be contrary to that. So as long as there's a ruling that's based on a factual basis that I'm not a U.S. citizen, there's no way that the U.S. government can ever change and say that I am a U.S. citizen and exercise any kind of control or authority over me.
644.PF:So as long as that conviction is there,
645.RH:They can't draft you.
646.PF:They absolutely cannot force me to go back to the U.S.
648.PF:They have to admit that oh well we made a mistake, and if they do that they have to admit that they held me illegally for four years because they have the birth certificate, they knew I was a U.S. citizen. Um, so it works in my favour.
650.PF:As long as that conviction's there then I get to stay in Canada.
651.RH:Alright, that's good then. Okay. Um, that's all the questions I have for you.
653.RH:Um but you, you would abide by those conditions and,
655.RH:Okay good. Um so basically what I'll do is we can uh end the statement, I'll take you back to your cell for now, I'll talk to my supervisor. Like I said I'm like, mm pretty sure, I'm like 99 percent sure you're gonna be released tonight on a Promise to Appear uh with the attached Undertaking and the Undertaking's what has the conditions.
657.RH:Okay. And um ...
658.PF:Let me clarify one point.
660.PF:Uh with respect to no direct or indirect contact.
662.PF:The private investigator um can continue to monitor her activities and such as long as he has no contact with her right?
663.RH:He, yeah he can't be presenting any sort of messages to her from you.
664.PF:Right. We wouldn't want that anyway. We don't want her knowing what he looks like or who he is because, the whole point of ...
665.RH:No I just assumed she, she knew.
666.PF:Oh no, no.
667.RH:Oh okay. Okay.
668.PF:The whole point is being discreet so he can like follow her to her drug dealer's place and get pictures of her buying or (inaudible)
669.RH:Okay but he can't like leave a message in her mailbox
671.RH:saying I'm watching you.
672.PF:Oh no.
673.RH:From Patrick. Right? You, you can't do something like that.
674.PF:No of course not.
675.RH:Alright. Um, any other questions?
676.PF:How do I get home from here?
678.PF:I guess at this time of night I can call a cab.
679.RH:We might, we might drive you because like I said to be released I'm gonna want that uh,
680.PF:Oh right the birth certificate yes.
681.RH:birth certificate. And you know where that is at home,
683.RH:you'll be able to get that, okay perfect. Alright so you know what we'll do, we'll uh conclude the statement it's uh 10 after (inaudible). And uh (recording cuts out)